excessive force?

[ILP]

Re: excessive force?

well them kinna reporting about it here in texico, as these <span style="text-decoration: line-through">constable</span>police no ramp wid dem fire arms. 2 days after we moved here..they shot a 19 year old to death. apparently, they went to pick him up on a warrant and he punched one of the officers. they pumped him full of bullet holes and went on there way.

in this case, mi understand that the kid was a 15 year old in the 8th grade (smdh). he was &quot;known&quot; for his issues at school. when he came to school with the gun...the school conducted their lockdown procedures smoothly and made sure that the kid was isolated. ascarding to the news from the borderland (&lt;what wi call weh wi live ) ...the kid was asked numerous times in English <span style="text-decoration: underline">and</span> Spanish to drop his weapon. him didnt.

that's all these police need. mi sarry for di boy parents.

[blugiant]

Re: excessive force?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WitchyOoman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blakkgiant</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
tell mii doo yu tink iff de yuth wass oyinbo oldinn wan pellet gun dem police wood ave handle itt da same way? </div></div>

Where I live (Orange, Essex County, NJ - google the area for stats and demographics), yes, it is handled exactly the same way. </div></div>

tink mii didd read wey nj wass racial profilinn capital. wan happen to dem yuths wey got dem van shatt upp a wild bakk. argument iss dat stat sumtime misleadinn ann mii wood neva use de area wey yu live fe draw broad canclusion. yu knoo deep dunn yu reallee doan beeleeve itt handled de xxact same way. juss look att de population inn da jail ann de racial disparitee

[blugiant]

Re: excessive force?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WitchyOoman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blakkgiant</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
y iss itt wen itt oyinbo peeps holdinn guns de police have a better recard aff resolvinn dose issue peacefullee widd out usinn lethal force? </div></div>
Not hereabouts.

However, that ^ said... I do admit that there is truth to what you are saying overall. There is an institutional racism problem that does manifest as you're talking about, and I would be disingenuous not to say it. I am merely against your over-generalizing all the time, blakk. Not every cop... not every police department... has such racist streaks in it.


</div></div>

witchee yu cantradictinn ear. yu seyinn deer iss institutional racism butt de prablem iss mii generalizinn. institution racism lead disparate outcum butt yu arguinn dat mii generalizinn cah mii doan accept racism as an individual ting. racist oyinbo ave shifted dem racist paradigm fram general to individual to better argue against de argument dat awl oyinbo ar racist. mii see de game dat y mii doan fall inna dem trap

wen mii furst cum to merrikka wan aff mii friend father, wan blakk police sargant told mii doan eva chruss de police (blakk ar oyinbo) ann iff dem eva ask mii annee qwestian give dem mii name address onlee anneeting more dan dat ask fe a lawyar. iff yuh eva chatt to blakk police officers, yu will y wat yu seyinn iss natt based pon realitee.

wen mii wass a yuth inn ja mii nexx door neighbar son wass wan aff dem badd yaawd police widd a lethal reputation. mii use fe respexx imm fe gittinn ridd aff badd men untill mii gott oldah ann bettar ovatand. yu knoo mii good mekk de argument dat ja police even doah dem moaslee blakk ar racist too cah aff institutional racism

[MarieK]

Re: excessive force?


[/quote]scaring him would either cause him to drop the gun or start shooting....i would try to make sure i was in a covered position before attempting to scare him. [/quote]

this is a very gang-infested area, particularly MS-13, kids don't scare easily. If my family member was among the police officers waiting it out on command, and ended up shot, I'd be mighty ticked off.

If a teen breaks into your house and points a gun at you, are you going to wait it out and grab your weapon (provided you live in a non-gun-controlled state) and fire.

Just this week a man was breaking into a woman's house and she had to kill him - should she too, have waited it out and possibly have lost her life and that of her baby.

What if that boy had started firing a &quot;real&quot; gun, and there were casualties, keep in mind the recent <span style="text-decoration: line-through">shootings </span> massacres in schools.

If u stupid enough to waive a gun at ppl well u have to live with teh consequences.

[blugiant]

Re: excessive force?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WitchyOoman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blakkgiant</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
yu chattinn bout traininn mii chattinn bout blakk ann latino yuths beeinn view ann treated more harshlee </div></div>
Yes, I am talking about police procedural training. Police are people, too, and they have families (and there are plenty of black cops), and cops all want to go home safe and in one piece at the end of their shift, just as every other worker in society does. You, blakkgiant, apparently view policepersons as non-humans... I don't know, robots or something.

I'm not saying that disadvantaged youths (of ALL colors) aren't treated more harshly. I'm not even saying that, at times, black and latino youths aren't unfairly treated more harshly.

What I am saying is that there are two sides to every coin. And I find it offensive that your first question is if the policemen were white. How about asking if they were properly trained to handle such a situation as this one? How about asking about or discussing their actions, rather than their skin color? How about judging these men by their characters, and not by their skin color? Or do think that the Reverend Dr Martin Luther King was wrong? </div></div>

yess mii tink mlk wass wrang pon certain tings. yu eva read ghandi. mlk sed ghandi wass nan violence butt wen mii read ghandi ghandi chatt bout widdout violence. twoo diffarant tings. content aff dem characters and not by skin color sund good noo wander y so manee oyinbo memorized dat part aff de speech butt wat about de rest aff de speech? inn jamaica, mii teacher mekk de class memorized mlk speech ann itt wass onlee wen mii came to merikka dat mii read ann ear de whole speech. amerrikka even widd awl itt faults educated mii bettar pon racism dan jamaica.

mii knoo wan blakk cop dat got shot tryinn to stop a blakk man fram abusinn imm blakk gurlfriend inn mickeydee. imm disarmed ann arrested de man ann mii ask imm y imm neva tekk out imm gun ann shoot de man. dat blakk officer xxplained oww manee thyme blakk peeps came to imm rescue inn volatile situations cah dem respexxted imm ann imm doan waan fe kill annee wan unless itt nesceessarry. ask imm bout police racism ann imm will agree widd mii? ask de blakk ann latino officers woo studee widd mii fe gitt dem college degree bout racism? even ask de oyinbo officers woo tried fe recruit mi inna da police department by tellinn mii dat de onlee way fe change police racism wass fram widdinn ann de hanest wan will tell yu bout police racism? wan aff mii ole gurlfriend iss a police, mii still tryinn fe figgar dat wan out. wan aff mii young relative apply fe tekk de police xxamination ann mii neva discouraged dem even dough mii wanted to. soo yu argument bout mii viewinn dem as non human nuh rite

pocedural traininn argument to mii iss anna way fe sugar coat racist police policee. yu knoo blakk ann latino police moas aff de thyme show more restrain cah dem ovatand racism ann knoo dem ar more likelee fe be judge more harshlee widdinn dem department cah dem blakk ann latino. so yu waan mii fe ignore dat de slave fugitive retreival arigin aff police inn merikka. yu waan mii fe ignore de stoppinn ann friskinn aff blakk yuths. yu ear de addar day bout innacent blakk men release afftah servinn 31 ears inn jail fe rape cah dem widdhold evveedences.

witchee neva figgit dat mii see tings inn blakk ann oyinbo butt itt cah aff mii luv fe humanitee dat mii treat awl peeps widd respexx

[WitchyOoman]

Re: excessive force?

I have to say one thing, before I say anything else, Blakk: You have always treated me with respect and friendship. I have never seen you speak to anyone without respect. This is true! No matter how much we see things differently - opposite, usually - you take the time to try to explain your viewpoint, and you always read mine. I know you read what I post because you reply directly to it. Thank you for all of this.


You know I am fully aware of racism. I don't say it doesn't exist. In fact, I know full well - and state so - that racism is so institutionalized that it seems to be something we are unable to get rid of. You also know (I believe) that I am as non-racist as I can be, me being white and raised in a primarily all-white area of Philadelphia. (the upper Northeast)

God knows, having been raised and lived in Philadelphia in the 1960s/'70s/'80s, I have seen racism, particularly racism within a police department, and how young men of color are (mis)treated differently than white men of the same age.

I now live in an area where the population is primarily people of color (African diaspora peoples and Latinos). We, here in this little corner of NJ, do not have the racism problems that are apparently rampant in other parts of the state.

All of this ^ said..... you have to have police who are able to keep the peace and maintain safety of the general population. This particular case is about a boy who was threatening the school and those within the school; something had to be done, quickly, to neutralize the threat. It is impractical to suggest that the cops should have shot, but not to kill. It is not so easy to aim any of the pistols that police carry that closely from the distance this kind of incident occurs. Believe me, I have a large number of marksmanship awards with a number of types of firearms, and it is not so easy as most people think to aim for a gunman's hand (for example) and hit it - or a shoulder, rather than going for the chest shot. I saw nothing in the article that suggested that the boy's race had a thing to do with what happened. Nor did I see anybody else involved with the case making such a suggestion.

[blugiant]

Re: excessive force?

<span style="font-weight: bold">Newark police detective's acquittal on assault charges to be protested</span>


NEWARK — Community activists plan to protest a jury's acquittal of a Newark police detective on charges he used excessive force against a teenager during a scuffle that was caught on video surveillance.

Detective Angel Pared was acquitted Thursday of aggravated assault, the most serious charge he faced. But a jury was unable to reach a verdict on three lesser counts.

Prosecutors claimed Pared assaulted the teen in March 2010, then allegedly falsified reports about the matter.

Pared had maintained that the teen threatened him during a legitimate stop. An attorney for the detective claimed at the time his client was being scapegoated the week prior to Newark's mayoral election, to mollify voters angry at the police.

Protesters are planning to rally at City Hall on Tuesday.

[Cultcha]

Re: excessive force?

If the police tell you to lower or drop a gun, even if it is a toy gun and you refuse, my view is you are committing suicide. You cannot always blame the cops.

I'm not saying there are not blatant acts of brutality and corruption by police everywhere but when a gun, or something that even resembles a gun comes into play the perpetrator deserves what they get.

No sympathy here! The parents should have taught the youth that lesson. They let down their son.

[blugiant]

Re: excessive force?

witchee mii awlways a sey mzungu pon yah less racist dan addar oyinbo cah dem xxposed to blakk peeps bunninn fiyah pon racism

de argument dat affend mzungu iss wen blakks like mii sey awl mzungu racist cah a latt aff dem wood natt knowinglee support racism. tink pon itt diss way wan mzungu woo doan tink dem racism wukk fe wan organization widd institutional racism ann try fe fallow de rules aff dat organization inn a non racist way. dat individual might natt feel dem racist butt bye wukkinn fe de racist organization de defendinn racism so dat mekk dem racist

de police went to dat school ann saw a yuth &quot;brandishing&quot; a weapon. so dem saw de yuth wavinn a weapon felt threaten ann killed de yuth. broader view iss guns illegal inn texas :no. do texas ave a histaree aff racism: yes. wasn't de alamo fought cah oyinbo wanted fe mekk texas a slave state even dough texas a part aff mexico outlawed slaveree: yes. wass texas de last state to free enslaved afrikkans: juneteenth ting. ar blakk ann latino yuths still more likelee fe bee treated inn a racist manner :yes. ar blakk ann latino yuths stereotype as more violent prone: yes. do oyinbo ave xxagerated fear aff blakk ann latino yuths: yes. wass the killinn aff de yuth influence by oyinbo unnatural fear aff de latino yuth: yess. didd de police fallow procedures: doan kno. lethal force iss a last resort ann itt iss possible dat police used lethal force because aff racist stereotypes ann fear aff da latino yuth

y didd de police have to react so quicklee wen waitinn out de latino yuth cood ave peacefullee resolved de situation? natt chattinn bout shootinn de yuth inn de arm ann legs, wat mii chatt bout iss y de need to shoot in de furst place? were was de crisis negotiator, were wass de conflict resolution xxpert. de police reacted too quicklee inn tekkinn da yuth life ann itt leff a latt aff unanwsar qwestian ann pain. iff de proper procedure was fallawed den itt thyme fe change dem procedures

wan aff de best advocate against police unjust kill is a jewish madder woo son wass killed bye police because imm add a hammer ann refused to dropped. de jewish communitee protested ann de jewish madder woo son wass killed bye de police iss protestinn widd blakk tryinn fe change ting cah as shi sed &quot;she now understand&quot;

[WitchyOoman]

Re: excessive force?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blakkgiant</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
witchee mii awlways a sey mzungu pon yah less racist dan addar oyinbo cah dem xxposed to blakk peeps bunninn fiyah pon racism

<span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">This ^ is entirely possible. I'm white, but the black people here aren't black people, they're my friends. Incidentally, they are also black. Just as my neighbors are my neighbors, not black strangers.</span></span>

de argument dat affend mzungu iss wen blakks like mii sey awl mzungu racist cah a latt aff dem wood natt knowinglee support racism. tink pon itt diss way wan mzungu woo doan tink dem racism wukk fe wan organization widd institutional racism ann try fe fallow de rules aff dat organization inn a non racist way. dat individual might natt feel dem racist butt bye wukkinn fe de racist organization de defendinn racism so dat mekk dem racist

<span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">Hmm. I think you're on very shaky ground here ^, Blakkgiant. I don't think I can agree with all of this. A job is a job. A company is a company. Barring overt excesses, just because one works for an employer who may be part of Babylon doesn't make that person racist.</span></span>

de police went to dat school ann saw a yuth &quot;brandishing&quot; a weapon. so dem saw de yuth wavinn a weapon felt threaten ann killed de yuth. broader view iss guns illegal inn texas :no. do texas ave a histaree aff racism: yes. wasn't de alamo fought cah oyinbo wanted fe mekk texas a slave state even dough texas a part aff mexico outlawed slaveree: yes. wass texas de last state to free enslaved afrikkans: juneteenth ting. ar blakk ann latino yuths still more likelee fe bee treated inn a racist manner :yes. ar blakk ann latino yuths stereotype as more violent prone: yes. do oyinbo ave xxagerated fear aff blakk ann latino yuths: yes. wass the killinn aff de yuth influence by oyinbo unnatural fear aff de latino yuth: yess. didd de police fallow procedures: doan kno. lethal force iss a last resort ann itt iss possible dat police used lethal force because aff racist stereotypes ann fear aff da latino yuth

<span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">I really can't say much about Texas; I've only ever been there three times - once - circa 1997 - to Fort Worth to empty a storage unit and drive the loaded moving truck back to NJ; once - circa 1987 - to a Mary Kay seminar in Dallas; once - in 2007 - to Houston to carry on with a cop for a week. lol (not really to carry on with him, but to visit him)</span></span>

y didd de police have to react so quicklee wen waitinn out de latino yuth cood ave peacefullee resolved de situation? natt chattinn bout shootinn de yuth inn de arm ann legs, wat mii chatt bout iss y de need to shoot in de furst place? were was de crisis negotiator, were wass de conflict resolution xxpert. de police reacted too quicklee inn tekkinn da yuth life ann itt leff a latt aff unanwsar qwestian ann pain. iff de proper procedure was fallawed den itt thyme fe change dem procedures

<span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">That's what I asked earlier: Why no negotiator? Why no SWAT? SWAT could have easily taken the boy alive and uninjured.

I don't know the answers to any of these questions.</span></span>

wan aff de best advocate against police unjust kill is a jewish madder woo son wass killed bye police because imm add a hammer ann refused to dropped. de jewish communitee protested ann de jewish madder woo son wass killed bye de police iss protestinn widd blakk tryinn fe change ting cah as shi sed &quot;she now understand&quot;

<span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">Was this ^ the case in Brooklyn? </span></span></div></div>

[Cultcha]

Re: excessive force?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WitchyOoman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

.... but the black people here aren't black people, they're my friends. </div></div>

Witchy, I always kind of scratch my head when I see people make these statements. Some people say things like &quot;I don't see colour&quot;. etc... etc... .

Truth is, the black people here, there and everywhere are black, and that's fine. My neighbour is black, my mailman is black and thats OK too. They are people who's skin happens to be black, just like how my eyes happen to be green and yours may be brown. No big deal.

I'm not trying to sound self righteous, Lord knows I have plenty of character flaws, (too many to list).

Just sayin' is all!

[R_C]

Re: excessive force?

When read in context I think you and Witchy may be saying the same thing.

Sometimes words get in the way...........

[Cultcha]

Re: excessive force?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R_C</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When read in context I think you and Witchy may be saying the same thing.

Sometimes words get in the way........... </div></div>

True!

[johnnycakes]

Re: excessive force?

&quot;witchee neva figgit dat mii see tings inn blakk ann oyinbo butt itt cah aff mii luv fe humanitee dat mii treat awl peeps widd respexx&quot;


&quot;now iss de thyme fe awl dem religious peeps wey morally apposed to homosexualitee fe organized ann tart fe putt pressure pon portia.
itt thyme fe jamaica fe pass laws mekkinn homosexualitee illegal'


This sort of hypocrisy, the homophobia and racism on the part of Blu and the overwhelming acceptance of it by the Jamaicans.com community is a big part of why I have stopped participating here.

Good luck with your community standards.

[blugiant]

Re: excessive force?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&quot;witchee neva figgit dat mii see tings inn blakk ann oyinbo butt itt cah aff mii luv fe humanitee dat mii treat awl peeps widd respexx&quot;


&quot;now iss de thyme fe awl dem religious peeps wey morally apposed to homosexualitee fe organized ann tart fe putt pressure pon portia.
itt thyme fe jamaica fe pass laws mekkinn homosexualitee illegal'


This sort of hypocrisy, the homophobia and racism on the part of Blu and the overwhelming acceptance of it by the Jamaicans.com community is a big part of why I have stopped participating here.

Good luck with your community standards.





</div></div>

diss mekk mii laff johnnycakes

awl diss thyme mii tink yu wass occupyinn sintinn. soo itt cah mii poas pon yah y yu doan poas pon yah

let ignore dat jamaicans.com mismanagement luv fe unjustly target ann censar wen mii bunn fiyah pon awl innflithtraitors funnee peeps. dem even censar mii fii poasinn [censored] wen evereebadee kno dat dem three wurds ann de phrase iss nan affensive. let ignore dat jflag, a farreen funnee arganization, peeps luv fe bawl oww jamaicans need fe bow ann even poas pon yah lookinn push dem duttee agenda. jc ar yu a memba aff jflag? let ignore de jamaicans.com membas wey sey dem nuh ave annee issues widd funnee peeps. let ignore dat jamaicans.com mismanagement tried fe force wan poastah fe bow ann wen imm refused dem chatt bout imm agreed fe no langar poas. even widd awl aff dat yu chatt bout overwhelminn acceptance aff mii bunninn fiyah pon funnee peeps

deep dunn inna yu heart ann soul yu kno moas peeps (blakks, oyinbos, latinos.eetc) agree widd mii dat homosexualitee iss an abomination even dough dem nah admit itt ann dat disturb yuh. de homosexuals agenda iss a minoritee ting finance by funnee men inn iigh place( churches included). wat reallee baddar iss dat moas aff de peeps inn de wurld see homosexualitee as de religion aff morrallee depraved mentallee unstable peeps, natt seyinn yu iss wan aff dem morrallee depraved mentallee unstable peeps

so yu apposed mii argument dat jamaica need fe past laws mekkinn homosexualitee illegal. y? so yu apposed de communitee settinn standards about wat iss acceptable ann non acceptable ann de communitee enforcinn dem tandards. sund like yu doan support democracee? wat wrang widd de communitee punishisnn deviants ann criminals dat violate de communitee standards ann norm. mii doan see a ting wrang wen jamaicans imposed dem communitee standards pon bigg funnee men wey xxploited blakk yuths. wat disturb yu ann addar funnee peeps pon yah iss dat mii awlways fallaw de rules pon yah dat y funnee peeps advocate dat even dough mii fallawinn de guidelines demm still need fe censar.

saree fe disturb yu butt blakk peeps cyaan bee racist. mii ear wan liberal progressive oyinbo man ask y blakk affii chatt bout oyinbo supremacee wen deer iss sum blakk supremacists dat xxploit blakks. imagine wan nan racial ting fe mekk oyinbo feel better bout racism