Contraceptives used to double HIV spread in Africa

[Derek]

Re: Contraceptives used to double HIV spread in Africa

<span style="font-weight: bold">R_C, do you believe AIDS was the result of African men having sex with green monkeys?

They kept telling me this on BBC, CNN and Fox.</span>

[WitchyOoman]

Re: Contraceptives used to double HIV spread in Africa

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What you are missing is that Contraceptives use resulted in a doubling of HIV in Africa, thats a fact that must not be overlook. It is an indication that contraceptive use is not working in Africa.</div></div>

No, what YOU, franksterr - and apparently most other Africans in Africa - are apparently missing is this:<span style="font-size: 11pt"> <span style="font-weight: bold">Injectible contraceptives are not meant or designed to prevent ANY STDs (AIDS &amp; HIV included); the injectible contracpetives are... wait for it... contraceptives.</span> </span> <span style="font-weight: bold">Contraceptives prevent conception/fertilization/pregnancy, solely.</span> That is the definition of &quot;contraceptive&quot; - something which prevents conception. The definition of &quot;conception is &quot;fertilization&quot;. A synonym for the medical term of &quot;fertilization&quot; is &quot;pregnancy&quot;. <span style="font-weight: bold">Contraceptives prevent babies from happening - that's it, that's all they do.</span> <span style="font-weight: bold">CONDOMS prevent both conception AND STDs.</span> There IS NO correlation between injectible contraceptives and HIV. Period. What you're saying, franksterr, is meaningless.

[WitchyOoman]

Re: Contraceptives used to double HIV spread in Africa

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What you are missing is that Contraceptives use resulted in a doubling of HIV in Africa</div></div>
No. That's is not what the study showed.

Maybe you didn't read it correctly?
Try reading it again.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
thats a fact that must not be overlook. It is an indication that contraceptive use is not working in Africa.</div></div>
It's not a fact, not at all.

Note: It may be a fact that HIV had doubled in Africa, I haven't bothered to look that up, so I'm not disputing that... <span style="font-style: italic">that</span> may be factual. If this is true, it isn't due to use or disuse of injectable contraceptives, however. Get your facts straight, franksterr.

What is <span style="text-decoration: underline">not</span> factual is that there is any correlation between the use of injectable contraceptives and HIV, as I've already said.

And also, what is <span style="text-decoration: underline">not</span> factual is that there is any correlation between whether or not injectable contraceptives (which prevent pregnancy, solely) and any potential rise in instance of HIV.

[WitchyOoman]

Re: Contraceptives used to double HIV spread in Africa

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Do you see the difference between infectious and acquired? <span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-style: italic">I</span></span> see the difference. Unfortunately, <span style="text-decoration: underline">you</span> don't seem to, franksterr, despite my explaining it to you several different ways.</span></span>
Acquired is non-genetic. <span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">Yup.</span></span>
AIDS is not Infectious <span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">Eh... Not exactly really correct. Technically, perhaps... but a distinction with no practical meaning in reality. Unprotected sexual activity with a person who has AIDS will expose you to highly infectious HIV, which, in turn may become AIDS. Not a risk any sane person should be willing to take.</span></span>
HIV is infectious. <span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">Yup.</span></span>
HIV is difficult to transmit heterosexually sexually <span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">BULL-SH*T!!! The second-largest group of AIDS-infected/HIV-infected people (after the largest group, being homosexual men) is heterosexual women! This means that it is <span style="text-decoration: underline">easily</span> transmitted hetrosexually sexually.</span></span> </div></div>

[WitchyOoman]

Re: Contraceptives used to double HIV spread in Africa

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R_C</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The injectable contraceptives given to the women in the study are not designed to halt the spread of HIV infections so your premise for this statement is faulty.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">AIDS is not Infectious. HIV is infectious.</div></div>While this is technically true, as a practical matter, it is a distinction without a difference. ....especially for those who wittingly or unwittingly have unprotected sex with someone who has AIDS and a detectable viral (HIV) load.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HIV is difficult to transmit heterosexually sexually </div></div>Now what does this mean exactly ? </div></div>
I see that R_C's common sense isn't prevailing with franksterr any more than mine is.
R_C, is it really true that most Africans (or the majority) think as franksterr does?

I really pity Africa and her peoples.
What a crying shame to see them kill themselves off with their own ignorance.

[franksterr]

Re: Contraceptives used to double HIV spread in Africa

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WitchyOoman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I really pity Africa and her peoples.
What a crying shame to see them kill themselves off with their own ignorance.</div></div>

No! thats not what I said or meant.
I have answered this already and the fact that you do not seem to understand and continue with this mis assumption reveals more about you than I wish to believe.
<span style="font-size: 14pt">So let me say <span style="font-weight: bold">Africans in general do not see AIDS the way I do</span>, they see it just as you do, being that they believe the same lies you do</span>.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">What you are missing is that Contraceptives use resulted in a doubling of HIV in Africa</span>
No. That's is not what the study showed.
Maybe you didn't read it correctly?
Try reading it again.
</div></div>

No again I am reading it correctly maybe you need to check your presumptions they are running away with you and revealing, a very gullible mind set. Here is a quote from the aeticle
&quot;<span style="font-size: 14pt">The study found that women using hormonal contraception became infected at a rate of 6.61 per 100 person-years, compared with 3.78 for those not using that method.</span> Transmission of H.I.V. to men occurred at a rate of 2.61 per 100 person-years for women using hormonal contraception compared with 1.51 for those who did not. &quot;

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">thats a fact that must not be overlook. It is an indication that contraceptive use is not working in Africa.</span>

It's not a fact, not at all.

Note: It may be a fact that HIV had doubled in Africa, I haven't bothered to look that up, so I'm not disputing that... that may be factual. If this is true, it isn't due to use or disuse of injectable contraceptives, however. Get your facts straight, franksterr.

What is not factual is that there is any correlation between the use of injectable contraceptives and HIV, as I've already said
And also, what is not factual is that there is any correlation between whether or not injectable contraceptives (which prevent pregnancy, solely) and any potential rise in instance of HIV..</div></div>

Are you reading the same article. here is another quote
&quot;So the evidence suggesting that the <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-size: 14pt">injectable contraceptive has biological properties that may make women and men more vulnerable to H.I.V.</span> infection </span>is particularly troubling.............While at least two other rigorous studies <span style="color: #FF0000">have found that injectable contraceptives increase the risk of women’s acquiring H.I.V</span>.,...........At one point, the researchers measured the concentration of H.I.V. in infected women’s genital fluid, finding “there was more H.I.V. in the genital fluid of those using hormonal contraception than those who aren’t,”...........It could be that progestin causes “immunologic changes in the vagina and cervix” or could increase the H.I.V.’s “ability to replicate,” Dr. Morrison said.[/quote]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">What you are missing is that Contraceptives use resulted in a doubling of HIV in Africa, thats a fact that must not be overlook. It is an indication that contraceptive use is not working in Africa.</span>
No, what YOU, franksterr - and apparently most other Africans in Africa - are apparently missing is this:<span style="font-size: 11pt"> <span style="font-weight: bold">Injectible contraceptives are not meant or designed to prevent ANY STDs (AIDS &amp; HIV included); the injectible contracpetives are... wait for it... contraceptives.</span> </span> <span style="font-weight: bold">Contraceptives prevent conception/fertilization/pregnancy, solely.</span> That is the definition of &quot;contraceptive&quot; - something which prevents conception. The definition of &quot;conception is &quot;fertilization&quot;. A synonym for the medical term of &quot;fertilization&quot; is &quot;pregnancy&quot;. <span style="font-weight: bold">Contraceptives prevent babies from happening - that's it, that's all they do.</span> <span style="font-weight: bold">CONDOMS prevent both conception AND STDs.</span> There IS NO correlation between injectible contraceptives and HIV. Period. What you're saying, franksterr, is meaningless. </div></div>

Where are you getting this from
I at no time said that injectactable contraceptives is meant to prevent STDs or HIV??? Any such idea is as a result of confusion on your part....check your reasoning.
Your assuptioms are revealing, the things you believe in....it is hard when one tries to make the facts fit the belief....disonance is the result

The article and the quotes above show that there is more than a correlation going on


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">Do you see the difference between infectious and acquired?</span> I see the difference. Unfortunately, you don't seem to, franksterr, despite my explaining it to you several different ways.
<span style="font-style: italic">AIDS is not Infectious</span> Eh... Not exactly really correct. Technically, perhaps... but a distinction with no practical meaning in reality. Unprotected sexual activity with a person who has AIDS will expose you to highly infectious HIV, which, in turn may become AIDS. Not a risk any sane person should be willing to take.</div></div>

The fact remains AIDS is not Infectious. its not only technical its reality.
Someone can have HIV for an entire lifetime and never develop AIDs True or false?
HIV does not kill - true or false?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">HIV is difficult to transmit heterosexually sexually</span> BULL-SH*T!!! The second-largest group of AIDS-infected/HIV-infected people (after the largest group, being homosexual men) is heterosexual women! This means that it is easily transmitted hetrosexually sexually.</div></div>

Wrong again...I think I.V. Drug users beats out heterosexual women

[WitchyOoman]

Re: Contraceptives used to double HIV spread in Africa

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I think I.V. Drug users beats out heterosexual women </div></div>
You think wrong... again.

Intravenous street drug (ab)users are the third-largest group.

[WitchyOoman]

Re: Contraceptives used to double HIV spread in Africa

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WitchyOoman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Intravenous street drug (ab)users are the third-largest group. </div></div>
However, I did read, recently, but I can't remember which publication this was in - sorry, that the rate/percentage of the intravenous drug abusers getting HIV and/or AIDS<span style="font-size: 11pt"><span style="color: #CC0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">*</span></span></span> from their habits are on a steep rise, and may - if the rate/percentage of heterosexual women remains pretty much what it now is - soon overtake the latter and become the second-largest group.

So, franksterr... you may soon be correct. Wait a while. Until then, however, you ware still wrong. :-p


<span style="font-size: 11pt"><span style="color: #CC0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">*</span></span></span>Don't even other to argue with me about whether or not one can contract AIDS in that manner; I was only quoting from an article. The article said what it said, regardless of what either you or I believe. OK?

[R_C]

Re: Contraceptives used to double HIV spread in Africa

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">R_C, do you believe AIDS was the result of African men having sex with green monkeys?

They kept telling me this on BBC, CNN and Fox.</span> </div></div>

That is pseudoscientific speculation for which there is no evidence and racist to boot.

What did you expect to learn from watching BBC, CNN and Fox anyway ?

[jah_yout]

Re: Contraceptives used to double HIV spread in Africa

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WitchyOoman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R_C</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The injectable contraceptives given to the women in the study are not designed to halt the spread of HIV infections so your premise for this statement is faulty.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">AIDS is not Infectious. HIV is infectious.</div></div>While this is technically true, as a practical matter, it is a distinction without a difference. ....especially for those who wittingly or unwittingly have unprotected sex with someone who has AIDS and a detectable viral (HIV) load.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HIV is difficult to transmit heterosexually sexually </div></div>Now what does this mean exactly ? </div></div>
I see that R_C's common sense isn't prevailing with franksterr any more than mine is.
R_C, is it really true that most Africans (or the majority) think as franksterr does?

I really pity Africa and her peoples.
What a crying shame to see them kill themselves off with their own ignorance. </div></div>



Absolutely ridiculous...a continent of people can never be generalized like this... Most of what is said in the media concerning africa and HIV is misinformation...
Africa has been and is being manipulated by the hidden hand

[Derek]

Re: Contraceptives used to double HIV spread in Africa

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R_C</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">R_C, do you believe AIDS was the result of African men having sex with green monkeys?

They kept telling me this on BBC, CNN and Fox.</span> </div></div>

That is pseudoscientific speculation for which there is no evidence and racist to boot.

What did you expect to learn from watching BBC, CNN and Fox anyway ?

</div></div>

Ah good. I knew it was rubbish.