Michael Manley - National Hero?

[Fledgist]

Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?

Originally posted by Q3210:
[qb]Roy? You have gone way back. Uncle Douglas is still alive I think, Norman`s first son who held the 100yd high school dash record after breaking his father`s long standing one.
Uncle Douglas spent time in Africa as a social worker of some sorts.
Aunt Muriel Manley, Norman`s aunt or sister was a medical doctor who founded the protein deficient disease, Kwashiokor whilst too in Africa.
A family of achievers, mother Edna, Michaels mom was a fine sculptress.
Norman O.D. and Michael need no introduction.[/qb]

Douglas, be it noted, is Michael's brother -- not his uncle.

I hope that Muriel Manley didn't 'found' Kwashiorkor (though I was under the impression that the disease was first identified and described by Cicely Williams, a white Jamaican -- hence often described in the texts as 'English').

I'd say that the Manley family had and has an abundance of talent.

[Q3210]

Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?

The present generation of Manley`s and their talents seem hidden except for Della, Norman Jnr`s. wife who is a gifted jazz/ folk soloist who plays to live audiences mostly at the Red Bones Cafe on Braemar Rd.
Of course we could not leave out yet another talent married into the family, Beverly Anderson-Manley, co-host of the popular morning radio show, The Breakfast Club.
Mike`s widow, Glynne was borrowed or taken from his friend of ICC connections.
Excuse the gossip for goodness sakes.
Nowadays, Eddie is making a new generation of Seagas, thanks to the very pregnant Carla.
Mr. Shearer is still with us even after causing some concern with an ailment recently.
His wife, Denise Eldermire-Shearer is a qualified doctor.
Lady Bustamante is with us also, faithful to the Chief even as a widow all these years.
She was many years his junior.
PJ once married, divorced for many years had his son raised by Forbes Burnham, former President of Guyana who married PJ`s wife.
Portia Simpson is married to Cable & Wireless regional head and former C&W Jamaica head, Erald Miller.
Most of the other public figures are hardly or never seen with their `better` halves and that includes PJ, if he has any.
There is some public expression that why would a man, not married want to lead a nation.
I do not know the answer, but one has got to respect a persons personal choice or non-choice as being personal and none of wi business. Or shouldn`t we?

[Fledgist]

Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?

Originally posted by Q3210:
[qb]The present generation of Manley`s and their talents seem hidden except for Della, Norman Jnr`s. wife who is a gifted jazz/ folk soloist who plays to live audiences mostly at the Red Bones Cafe on Braemar Rd.

{Fledgist: I was under the impression that Della was married to Michael's eldest son, Joseph. Speaking of talent, how could you forget Rachel Manley?}

Of course we could not leave out yet another talent married into the family, Beverly Anderson-Manley, co-host of the popular morning radio show, The Breakfast Club.

{Fledgist: Of course not.}

Mike`s widow, Glynne was borrowed or taken from his friend of ICC connections.
Excuse the gossip for goodness sakes.
Nowadays, Eddie is making a new generation of Seagas, thanks to the very pregnant Carla.

{Fledgist: He is 72, be it noted.}

Mr. Shearer is still with us even after causing some concern with an ailment recently.
His wife, Denise Eldermire-Shearer is a qualified doctor.
Lady Bustamante is with us also, faithful to the Chief even as a widow all these years.
She was many years his junior.
PJ once married, divorced for many years had his son raised by Forbes Burnham, former President of Guyana who married PJ`s wife.
Portia Simpson is married to Cable & Wireless regional head and former C&W Jamaica head, Erald Miller.
Most of the other public figures are hardly or never seen with their `better` halves and that includes PJ, if he has any.
There is some public expression that why would a man, not married want to lead a nation.
I do not know the answer, but one has got to respect a persons personal choice or non-choice as being personal and none of wi business. Or shouldn`t we?[/qb]

We should.

[Q3210]

Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?

Yes Fledge, Rachel is quite a writer. She wrote about her relationships with her family in one of her recent books. Some Manleys are as some artists, eccentrics.

[Fledgist]

Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?

Originally posted by Q3210:
[qb]Yes Fledge, Rachel is quite a writer. She wrote about her relationships with her family in one of her recent books. Some Manleys are as some artists, eccentrics.[/qb]

Make that two of her recent books.

All I can say is that that family contains an amazing reservoir of intellectual and artistic talent.

[carl68ou1]

Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?

Originally posted by Fledgist:
Douglas, be it noted, is Michael's brother -- not his uncle.
...[/QB]

My bad, sorry [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[evjamthom]

Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?

[img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Michael Manley, during his time as leader of the Government, brought about many changes, especially in the area of the rights of women and the elimination of the "bastardy law". In his time, he was among the top ten leaders of the world. At times, he may have been more highly regarded on the international scene, than at home. It would be interesting to determine who are the other nine leaders of his day, and what accolades and honours have been bestowed on them.

Whether or not he should be made a national hero, let's not rush it. The fact that he was a very influential leader, should not in itself, qualify him to be a national hero. All who occupy the high office of leader of the government are expected to exhibit exemplary leadership qualities which will bring about meaningful changes in the life of the masses. Let me at this point, state very clearly. Had the leaders of the government after Bustamante and Norman Manley, exhibited, what we could call, reasonable qualities, the idea or question would not now, be posed; whether or not Michael Manley is deserving of national hero status. In fact, the gap of those "in betweens" and Michael would be close.

When we consider the situation before Bustamante and Norman Manley; the impact and changes in working conditions thereafter, their national hero status cannot be questioned. We ought not be too eager to confer national hero honour on the basis of charismatic leadership, or the individual doing a job that is expected, as a result of his/her position.

Peace and love.

[img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Q3210]

Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?

A hero is one who caused and brought about change for the benefit of those whom he led or whom he made his beneficiaries.
A hero is one who defended his beliefs and his actions without actual dynamic change, with his life.

Michael admitted sorrow at what was caused by his experiments in the 70`s.
When re-elected, Mike attempted to rub off his Leopard spots by divorcing publicly his flirtations with democratic-socialism and embracing free-enterprise capitalism.
Mike the artistic orator and thinker, used people as his paint brush, canvas and colours.
He created wonderful visions.
The engine that was to have driven these wonderful things to reality was sadly not off the blocks.

PJ the lawyer who has had Jamaica at his finger-tips for the past 13 years is neither artist nor engineer. He is a giver of land.
He gives land to squatters then reminds them that if they don`t keep up with the mortgage, they`ll forfeit ownership.
Squatters are usually people who were misplaced out of jobs and have remained mostly unemployed or under-employed, who have given up on previous mortgages because of unaffordability.
PJ hopes to have a people with land, but he hasn`t yet thought how the majority will maintain payments without any job-creations except for "Lift Up Jamaica" road sweeping and side-walk building, hence under-employment this great man has created.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?

Q3210,

You stated that Jamaicans are feisty and facety and push back against anyone attempting to domineer them.

Michael Manley was a home grown democratic socialist who failed not entirely of his own ideas.
It is no secret that the CIA used tactics similar to those they used in the overthrow of Salvador Allende in Chile just a few years earlier including use of the rumor mill through which much of Jamaica'ns views of what is happening is spread and exagerated

Had the United States not existed or had not been actively acting against "leftist" social reform movements in the Cold War against socialism, Michael might well have succeeded at the social and economic reforms he attempted and Jamaica would be a far different country than it is now.

Jamaicans were hoodwinked into chosing their neo-colonialist state and now will never have the opportunity to even consider anyone as moral and far-seeing as Michael Manley.

The United States will not permit it.

Do you or anyone else care to contest that point?

[quodlibet]

Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?

waiting patiently to hear anyone contest this...

(I believe this might be the first post in a while that 'cakes did not mention Cuba in... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] )

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?

Whatch and see Cakes,Jamaica will eventually make it economically and as soon as we do you will hear the US want to offer statuhood to us. 10 more years,you watch and see.
we will outshine even the oil producing countries,there is much more than meets the eye with us and we wont go communists either,because every Jamaican love to own whatever he has.
We are co operative,but very individualistic.

[quodlibet]

Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?

Dr. Dudd, I am mystified, yet strangely encouraged by your blind statement of faith... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Do you have any reasons that you could give in order to clear the myst? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[papaD]

Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?

Originally posted by Ackee:
[qb]Should Michael Manley be honoured as a National Hero? Has Michael Manley contribution to Jamaica led to a significantly positive change in its development?[/qb]

In answer to your question. I have read two books that would try to help me on this one (Struggling in the Periphery and David Pantons book written in 1993 Remembering Michael Manley) as well as the different Jamaicans who lived through this including members of my own family.

I would say too early for a verdict on this one Ackee. The time lapse of making people National heroes seem to be about 20-40 years and this time has not elapsed. The key question within your question for me is what are the criteria for someone becoming a national hero.

Until I have this criteria, the verdict is atill out.

As an interim response, what I can say is MM made a significant contribution to Jamaican public life and also his concept of non-alignment in relation to the Third World. Whether you agree or not the non-alignment was a bold progressive concept that had its ramifications in relation to the cold war geo-political situation and maybe was the wrong time. I suspect if continued in 1989 until recently it would have done even better and received a better hearing.

I think the key significant thing was that the guy was honest and big enough to say that he got it wrong in the 70s and I wish some of those who came after him both in his party and the opposition could do this. Maybe that thought might be a little naive!!

[china920]

Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?

HELLLLLLLLLLL NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[jahworks]

Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?

as long as eddy is a hero too...it's only fair...