Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns (Inspired by blugiant)

[tsophra]

Re: Thread Deleted? (Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jaded</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i shoulda put a big ole dutty disclaimer in earlier stating admittedly its biased... however I tend see men as the exploiters wedda dem selling or buying

guess i'm just sexist.. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img] </div></div>

u know Jaded, at the end of the day, the discussion is really about there being exploitation infact...who initiating it does not belie the fact that , in any form or shape, the action of exploitation is immoral and wrong and should not happen....

if in 2007, we cannot agree on that point, the new 'me' generation, our kids,r going to be even more 'me' and more exploitive than our generation , which was once thought to be the 'me' generation </div></div>

Vannie..i think most..if not all..would agree that exploitation is wrong..i agree wedda the tourist are the exploited or the exploiter its wrong....the issue seems to be what is exploitation and are white people the primary perpetrators (sp)



y

[Blackstar*]

Re: Thread Deleted? (Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns)

The economically strong exploit the economically poor.

[Blackstar*]

Re: Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns (Inspired by blugiant)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ohliz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But the Dutch flock to tourists in Amsterdam to sell them sex. </div></div><span style='font-family: Georgia'>Tourists flock to the red light district to pick & choose from a selection of European and non-European prostitutes. For the record, prostitution is legal in Holland (and Germany BTW) where it is conducted mainly in brothels and private homes.</span>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Amsterdam's famous Red Light District covers a large area in the oldest part of the city. It has been servicing the personal needs and desires of locals and visitors for five centuries. There is a certain charm to the area thanks to the old buildings leaning at odd angles overlooking tree-enshrouded canals, while inviting pubs, cafes and coffeeshops tempt you to linger longer. Music of every genre can be heard along the streets from a dozen or more venues late at night. Recently redone streets, revamped façades, new, classier resturants are now transforming what was once dark and dingy into one of the most attractive parts of town! Now there are more reasons then ever to visit the Red Light district, and experience this very special place.

The narrow alleyways that reflect the inviting red glow of the large picture windows where an endless stream of horny men oogle nearly naked female flesh is of course the main attraction. The women behind the windows run the gamut from young and beautiful to grandmotherly and almost revolting. There's enough diversity here including Asian, Black, Latin and of course European women to satisfy any fantasy. Source </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Amsterdam has been conducting its own cleanup program for nearly five years, using a 2002 law that forces business operators to disclose detailed accounting in order to have their licenses renewed.

Last year, the city used the law to order the closure of one-third of all brothels in the Red Light District that were unable to comply.

But Amsterdam's District Court blocked the closures while brothel owners fight the decision. That case is still making its way through the courts.

City spokeswoman Marga Kuperus said women, <span style="color: #CC0000">especially illegal immigrants</span>, are often forced into prostitution, but few dare to file complaints for fear of immigration authorities or of retaliation from their pimps. Source </div></div>

<span style='font-family: Georgia'>And the customers are...
</span> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Frank de Wolf, a Labor Party member of the Amsterdam City Council... said he is fed up with the planeloads of British thrill-seekers who take cheap flights to Amsterdam each Friday evening for weekend binges of sex, drugs and alcohol in his city's red-light district, where scantily clad prostitutes stand behind plate-glass windows beckoning to potential customers. Source </div></div>

[Blackstar*]

Re: Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns (Inspired by blugiant)

<span style='font-family: Georgia'>For those of who think prostitution between consenting adults is a business like any other, open your eyes!</span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> (7) Before handing over any money demand the following: (a) get her to agree to remove all her clothing and work totally nude; (b) inform her that you will fondle her as you please; (c) discuss specific sex acts and the postions you want her to assume; (d) agree upon a specific amount of time to be spent having sex -- she can undress and dress on her own time; and the total amount she is to be paid; and (e) also, annonce you have a watch and that you will be the timekeeper. Declare the starting time and the finish time per the agreement. The con artist will become annoyed because you are defusing her ruse. Her chief weapon is ambiguity! Once you're inside and she has your money, she will claim that she never agreed to your touching her breasts or a host of other things which you may have assumed were part of the deal.</div></div>

Source provided on request through PM only as it is not G-rated.

[ohliz]

Re: Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns (Inspired by blugiant)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BlackStar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-family: Georgia'>Tourists flock to the red light district to pick & choose from a selection of European and non-European prostitutes. For the record, prostitution is legal in Holland (and Germany BTW) where it is conducted mainly in brothels and private homes.</span></div></div>

I understand that, it was my point. This is a case where men (of all colors but mostly white from my own observation) are patronizing prostitutes who are also mostly white (again, my own observation). There is not a first world white - third world people of color situation there as is the perhaps the case with Jamaica or Africa or Thailand.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Frank de Wolf, a Labor Party member of the Amsterdam City Council... said he is fed up with the planeloads of British thrill-seekers who take cheap flights to Amsterdam each Friday evening for weekend binges of sex, drugs and alcohol in his city's red-light district, where scantily clad prostitutes stand behind plate-glass windows beckoning to potential customers.</div></div>

No kidding. I was surprised that the Dutch people we met were pleased to find that we were American and not British...everyone in Amsterdam, it seems, hates the British.

[Blackstar*]

Re: Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns (Inspired by blugiant)

I disagree - black and Asian women are exploited far more than white women. A disproportionate number of exploiters are white men. This has everything to do with race. I've presented ample evidence to support my point of view. I'm still waiting for evidence to the contrary (and anecdotes just don't cut it).

[ohliz]

Re: Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns (Inspired by blugiant)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BlackStar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I disagree - black and Asian women are exploited far more than white women. A disproportionate number of exploiters are white men. This has everything to do with race. I've presented ample evidence to support my point of view. I'm still waiting for evidence to the contrary (and anecdotes just don't cut it). </div></div>

Ah...now I agree that black and Asian women are exploited more often. They are also more likely to have lower economic status and thus decide prostitution is the best living to make or be sold by their families or answer a dodgy job ad that winds up being a prostitution front or any number of ways that women get into prostitution.

White men are also more likely to be wealthy than black men...not sure about Asian men but they seem to spend quite a lot of money with prostitutes (white, Asian and black) as well and I think that speaks to their higher economic status.

My point is that I think it is about class more than race and as I acknowledged earlier, they often are one and the same but I think the determining factor is poverty, not race.

You have provided articles about this or that specific situation but I haven't seen any statistics to support your assertion, apologies if i missed them as the thread is rather long and I came to it late.

I haven't provided any statistics to support my point of view either, and that is because I haven't been able to find any one way or the other. As prostitution is illegal in most places, stats will be hard to come by.

But I do firmly believe that prostitution is about money - needing it and being willing to do something most people find unpleasant at best - to get it. It's just logical.

[turtledude]

Re: Thread Deleted? (Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BlackStar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The economically strong exploit the economically poor. </div></div>

[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img]...There are a few great "truths" in life:

1) Water runs downhill following the path of least resistance.

2) All people want to exchange the least amount of time, for the most amount of goods needed. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70402-thinking.gif[/img]

[evanovitch]

Re: Thread Deleted? (Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jaded</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jaded</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i shoulda put a big ole dutty disclaimer in earlier stating admittedly its biased... however I tend see men as the exploiters wedda dem selling or buying

guess i'm just sexist.. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img] </div></div>

u know Jaded, at the end of the day, the discussion is really about there being exploitation infact...who initiating it does not belie the fact that , in any form or shape, the action of exploitation is immoral and wrong and should not happen....

if in 2007, we cannot agree on that point, the new 'me' generation, our kids,r going to be even more 'me' and more exploitive than our generation , which was once thought to be the 'me' generation </div></div>

Vannie..i think most..if not all..would agree that exploitation is wrong..i agree wedda the tourist are the exploited or the exploiter its wrong....the issue seems to be what is exploitation and are white people the primary perpetrators (sp)



y </div></div>

many issues deh widdin dis conversation but mek mi address dis one...in the reality of things, they stand out...why? because we forget that blacks have only recently, and yes, recently mean widdin the last 30-40 years been able to move freely and acceptable across the globe in all spheres...and wid our movement, u wi find that the migration is primarily to find a betta grazing grung fi bettament of life...

whites r the ongle ones who, to copy sinting from a comedian, hunt on a full stomach....in times of war, others conscript women....the advent of tourism and sex tourism on a whole has primarily been a white ,(and i am not meaning North American white cause white is white )ting....the reasoning has merit, if u undastand dat travel fi pleasure , up until fairly recently, has not been open, in the sense of being affordable and even allowed in terms of conveyance, for any minority across the board
oriental/asian societies may have sex trade widdim dem borders but the history of dem interaction wid each other, shows, that none was paddling across the waters to juss to seek so so sex...

and therein is the crux....who, longterm, has controlled the nations of the world, and controlled travel across said nations of the world...cause make no mistake, whites tend have for a long time purported that the history of the world begins wid dere advent across it...so why be selective in wat u wi tek credit fah?[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

is not a ting seh u a blame dem cause dem white, is a thing that they had the means , motive and opportunity...me hope u see whe me a try convey to u

absent, the take dat all of this discussion is a jab at white people, u can argue the case as set out...dats how mi seet




we tend to restrict our reference points to juss who doing what as it relates to this board...some discussions transcend the board experience...

[evanovitch]

Re: Thread Deleted? (Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ohliz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Seveen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... And we certainly do not define the sex work that many wives and partners carry out for monetary gains, fabulous gifts, houses and expensive SUVs as activities along a continuum of prostitution.[/b]</div></div></div></div>
The exact point made by one of the ladies during a research project. Outside of those young girls and women forced into prostitution by pimps, the rest of this sex biz is just about as clear as mud. </div></div>

it may not be included in surveys but society certainly use to cite it....many of us on this board can remember who, in our communities were held to be the people u dont associate wid, due to dem sexual laxity...and where did dis teaching come from?

dat is why,u even having this discussion...it was taught that interpersonal relationship ,i.e.man/woman, when it reach a certain level was to mean something....sex is nothing new....wat is new, is how people trying to mold how u view it....

when whites were the upholder of all that was pure and right, and minorities ,wedda black , polynesian etc, were open and loving wid demselves, it was cause dem was juss slack...now dat whites want to let down dem pants so to speak, dem coming up on wat dem work years to inculcate....

[ohliz]

Re: Thread Deleted? (Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">whites r the ongle ones who, to copy sinting from a comedian, hunt on a full stomach....in times of war, others conscript women....the advent of tourism and sex tourism on a whole has primarily been a white ,(and i am not meaning North American white cause white is white )ting....the reasoning has merit, if u undastand dat travel fi pleasure , up until fairly recently, has not been open, in the sense of being affordable and even allowed in terms of conveyance, for any minority across the board </div></div>

Good point that has me thinking.

[Tropicana]

Re: Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns (Inspired by blugiant)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pepper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tropicana,

All replies from the comments in feedback have been merged with this thread. </div></div>

Thank you for the heads up Pepper. man that must have been a lot of work.

[Tropicana]

Re: Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns (Inspired by blugiant)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I'd say there is no area without prostitution, except maybe Singapore where you get caned for littering and probably executed for being a prostitute.

</div></div>

Wrong again...dem ave "full service massage" [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70365-flirt.gif[/img] and "chicken".


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Prostitution is not just in the Geylang or Desker Road area. There are MANY other avenues also - and the main ones are massage parlors. Most of the smaller massage places offer "other" services. The KTV and karaoke clubs are also providing more than "singing". </div></div>

[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/704555_dwl.gif[/img]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is a place known to sailors as the Four Floors or Whores. It's world famous, but a total dump. Across from the Hilton on Orchard Street is a 4 level mall...i think it's called Orchard Towers. The bars are filled with overpriced and nasty Thai whores. Many of them are transvestites.

[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/dizzy.gif[/img]

</div></div>

[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/704555_dwl.gif[/img]


http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/Asi...ution-BR-1.html

Like in Malaysia, you also do have the guys approaching men on the street who look foreign and offering to send 2 girls up to his their hotel room fi gi dem "massage". Now you tell me, what kinda massage require 2 "girls".

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Singapore cracks down on Chinese women involved in prostitution
Asian Economic News, June 21, 2004
SINGAPORE, June 17 Kyodo

Singapore is cracking down on women from mainland China prostituting themselves in the city-state, according to police.

The police said they arrested 19 Chinese prostitutes last week for allegedly openly soliciting clients in Chinatown, a shopping enclave within walking distance from Singapore's financial and business district.

Although prostitution is tolerated in Singapore, openly soliciting clients in public places outside red-light districts is illegal.

Singapore cracks down on Chinese women involved in prostitution
Asian Economic News, June 21, 2004
SINGAPORE, June 17 Kyodo

Singapore is cracking down on women from mainland China prostituting themselves in the city-state, according to police.

The police said they arrested 19 Chinese prostitutes last week for allegedly openly soliciting clients in Chinatown, a shopping enclave within walking distance from Singapore's financial and business district.

Although prostitution is tolerated in Singapore, openly soliciting clients in public places outside red-light districts is illegal.

Source

</div></div>




[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/704555_dwl.gif[/img]


Didn't you see the article I posted earlier about neighbouring Malaysia.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">these "activities" are not limited to white women
many black women indulge as well
</div></div>

Yes but MOST are White.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

we have come to see that sex tourism, while the focus is on the adults, NEVER REMAINS WITH THEM
</div></div>

AH now THIS is siginificant and no one has raised this point yet. The whole consenting adults argument breaks down VERY quickly.

[tsophra]

Re: Thread Deleted? (Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jaded</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jaded</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i shoulda put a big ole dutty disclaimer in earlier stating admittedly its biased... however I tend see men as the exploiters wedda dem selling or buying

guess i'm just sexist.. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img] </div></div>

u know Jaded, at the end of the day, the discussion is really about there being exploitation infact...who initiating it does not belie the fact that , in any form or shape, the action of exploitation is immoral and wrong and should not happen....

if in 2007, we cannot agree on that point, the new 'me' generation, our kids,r going to be even more 'me' and more exploitive than our generation , which was once thought to be the 'me' generation </div></div>

Vannie..i think most..if not all..would agree that exploitation is wrong..i agree wedda the tourist are the exploited or the exploiter its wrong....the issue seems to be what is exploitation and are white people the primary perpetrators (sp)



y </div></div>

many issues deh widdin dis conversation but mek mi address dis one...in the reality of things, they stand out...why? because we forget that blacks have only recently, and yes, recently mean widdin the last 30-40 years been able to move freely and acceptable across the globe in all spheres...and wid our movement, u wi find that the migration is primarily to find a betta grazing grung fi bettament of life...

whites r the ongle ones who, to copy sinting from a comedian, hunt on a full stomach....in times of war, others conscript women....the advent of tourism and sex tourism on a whole has primarily been a white ,(and i am not meaning North American white cause white is white )ting....the reasoning has merit, if u undastand dat travel fi pleasure , up until fairly recently, has not been open, in the sense of being affordable and even allowed in terms of conveyance, for any minority across the board
oriental/asian societies may have sex trade widdim dem borders but the history of dem interaction wid each other, shows, that none was paddling across the waters to juss to seek so so sex...

and therein is the crux....who, longterm, has controlled the nations of the world, and controlled travel across said nations of the world...cause make no mistake, whites tend have for a long time purported that the history of the world begins wid dere advent across it...so why be selective in wat u wi tek credit fah?[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

is not a ting seh u a blame dem cause dem white, is a thing that they had the means , motive and opportunity...me hope u see whe me a try convey to u

absent, the take dat all of this discussion is a jab at white people, u can argue the case as set out...dats how mi seet




we tend to restrict our reference points to juss who doing what as it relates to this board...some discussions transcend the board experience...

</div></div>

yu nu haffi convince me cause me agree deres an establish pattern... hopefully the points yu made have addressed the concerns expressed by some

[tsophra]

Re: Thread Deleted? (Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ohliz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Seveen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... And we certainly do not define the sex work that many wives and partners carry out for monetary gains, fabulous gifts, houses and expensive SUVs as activities along a continuum of prostitution.[/b]</div></div></div></div>
The exact point made by one of the ladies during a research project. Outside of those young girls and women forced into prostitution by pimps, the rest of this sex biz is just about as clear as mud. </div></div>

it may not be included in surveys but society certainly use to cite it....many of us on this board can remember who, in our communities were held to be the people u dont associate wid, due to dem sexual laxity...and where did dis teaching come from?

dat is why,u even having this discussion...it was taught that interpersonal relationship ,i.e.man/woman, when it reach a certain level was to mean something....sex is nothing new....wat is new, is how people trying to mold how u view it....

when whites were the upholder of all that was pure and right, and minorities ,wedda black , polynesian etc, were open and loving wid demselves, it was cause dem was juss slack...now dat whites want to let down dem pants so to speak, dem coming up on wat dem work years to inculcate....

</div></div>

very chroo.."OMG..look at dem dancing dem moving dem hips" [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/704555_dwl.gif[/img]