Divorce & Remarriage

[msgoody2shoes]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Accepted2, what you stated "sounds" logical. I've heard ministers before say that Romans 7 refers to a "spiritual death" if you would. Of course, I do not believe that interpretation. I believe it meant a physical death. There is a big difference in a spiritual law and a physical marriage. The Bible has proof of us being dead to sin and we should be. We have also heard of the death of a marriage. This simply means that a marriage has ended. The bond has been broken and divorce is on the way. But that is not the same death as being dead to sin. I don't get that out of the passage. That passage plainly states that as long as a person is "living", still breathing, you are bound by the law to that person in marriage. No spiritual death can break that bond. There has to be a physical death.

Jedi, my mother's husband married a woman back in his day. She was the worst thing that could happen to him. They seperated and he joined the church later. For years, he led a celibate life because although they were divorced, in God's sight, he was still a married man. Man had put asunder what God had joined. Then, he found out in her younger days, she had married an older man. This freed him from that marriage and he became on the market again. When my father died, my mother became on the market and they got married some 3 years later. His marriage was an act of adultery and she was freed from her marriage by the death of her huaband. Therefore, their marriage is honourable in the sight of God. IF he had still been divorced, it would have been adultery on both their parts even though she was a widow. Any second marriage, without the death of a spouse, is considered adultery. Unless in his case and mine, you find out your first spouse had been married before.Then you are free as well.

[Green_Biscuit]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]

According to Biblical teaching, unless there was fornication in the first marriage, then the person remarrying has commited adultery. The question therefore becomes, is that an unforgivable sin? If God forgives the adultery, is the divorced party still bound by the first marriage? IMHO, only God can break the marital bond and quite frankly, there is nowhere in scriptures that says forgiving the act of divorce and the subsequent adultery caused by the remarriage does or does not involve the breaking of the first marital bond. I do think that is where the believer relies heavily on God's grace. The same commandments that includes "Thou shalt not commit adultery" also includes "Thou shalt not kill", and I do not think we think twice about whether or not God forgives the murderer.

Another twist to this is that God's forgiveness involves the full removal of the sin being forgiven. It is as if it did not happen. What can we deduce from that?

You asked a very interesting question indeed. I do not think that the person who does not believe in the "validity" of the second marriage would consider remarriage. The person to do so would definitely have to believe that God's forgiveness broke the initial bond, though there is nowhere in scripture that directly justifies that position. [/qb][/QUOTE]

So, CEW, may I ask you this question straight out...do you or do you not think that it is okay for a divorced Christian to remarry (let us assume that the circumstances of the divorce were bad, perhaps even horrific, but not adultery)? Would you?

[Mutty]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

How come there are so many interpretations on something that is apparently so serious?

[msgoody2shoes]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
[qb] How come there are so many interpretations on something that is apparently so serious? [/qb]

Good question. Probably no answer though.
Most of the times, and not speaking of anyone on this forum, people will tend to interpretate according to what fits their particular situation.
If "I" were divorced with no option to remarry (because the marriage was my first and ended for whatever reason), quite naturally, I will find or create a loop hole that would allow me to remarry. Not saying everybody do that. I know some diehard people who are in that predicament and they are 100% against remarriage for themselves.
It's like the clean/unclean meat issue. God said certain meats were unclean and not fit for human consumption for a reason. Largely health related and obedience. Some will turn and say, "it's sanctified by the Word of God and prayer". But God specifically said it was not for us to eat. Seen? And they can be suffering from every imaginable disease largely due to their diet. Mainly, pork. Or they say it's not what goes in the body, it's what comes out. So those passages cancel out the original ones to allow them to eat unclean meats, etc.

On this particular subject, you will largely find divorcees' arguing that they can remarry after a divorce. The scriptures will become twisted and logistics will come in, but the Word will be the same when they get through twisting and turning. Just like fornication "used" to mean, sex between 2 single people (man and woman). Now, it has been changed to mean any illicit sex act so that the divorced people can use it to justify remarriage. How married people can commit fornication, and how sexual acts between 2 people of the same gender is considered fornication, is beyond me.

One Book, many interpretations.

[Mutty]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by msgoody2shoes:
One Book, many interpretations.

Nothing more needs to be said.

[Diplomat]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
How come there are so many interpretations on something that is apparently so serious?

Easy. Like some other subjects, there are aspects of the issue that falls into a 'gray area' and it is those various gray areas that are open to interpretation. Usually, a study of related scriptures can clear up some things but not always, so each is left to their own interpretation so to speak.

[Mutty]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by CEW:
...so each is left to their own interpretation so to speak.

This is the scary part as history has shown.

[Diplomat]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Green_Biscuit:

Originally posted by CEW:
According to Biblical teaching, unless there was fornication in the first marriage, then the person remarrying has commited adultery. The question therefore becomes, is that an unforgivable sin? If God forgives the adultery, is the divorced party still bound by the first marriage? IMHO, only God can break the marital bond and quite frankly, there is nowhere in scriptures that says forgiving the act of divorce and the subsequent adultery caused by the remarriage does or does not involve the breaking of the first marital bond. I do think that is where the believer relies heavily on God's grace. The same commandments that includes "Thou shalt not commit adultery" also includes "Thou shalt not kill", and I do not think we think twice about whether or not God forgives the murderer.

Another twist to this is that God's forgiveness involves the full removal of the sin being forgiven. It is as if it did not happen. What can we deduce from that?

You asked a very interesting question indeed. I do not think that the person who does not believe in the "validity" of the second marriage would consider remarriage. The person to do so would definitely have to believe that God's forgiveness broke the initial bond, though there is nowhere in scripture that directly justifies that position.

So, CEW, may I ask you this question straight out...do you or do you not think that it is okay for a divorced Christian to remarry (let us assume that the circumstances of the divorce were bad, perhaps even horrific, but not adultery)? Would you?

The more I think about it, the more questions there are that I am not quite fully reconciled on. However, if a divorced Christian believes that the forgiveness of the sin of divorce also involves the breaking of the bond of the former marriage, bearing in mind that only God can do that, I'm not going to take issue with them. Excluded however are Pastors, as I firmly believe that no remarried person - unless the first spouse dies - should serve in that role.

[Diplomat]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:

Originally posted by CEW:
...so each is left to their own interpretation so to speak.

This is the scary part as history has shown.

Agreed, though there is not much, even in secular literature, that is not open to some individual interpretation.

[Guest]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]

Originally posted by Green_Biscuit:

Originally posted by CEW:
According to Biblical teaching, unless there was fornication in the first marriage, then the person remarrying has commited adultery. The question therefore becomes, is that an unforgivable sin? If God forgives the adultery, is the divorced party still bound by the first marriage? IMHO, only God can break the marital bond and quite frankly, there is nowhere in scriptures that says forgiving the act of divorce and the subsequent adultery caused by the remarriage does or does not involve the breaking of the first marital bond. I do think that is where the believer relies heavily on God's grace. The same commandments that includes "Thou shalt not commit adultery" also includes "Thou shalt not kill", and I do not think we think twice about whether or not God forgives the murderer.

Another twist to this is that God's forgiveness involves the full removal of the sin being forgiven. It is as if it did not happen. What can we deduce from that?

You asked a very interesting question indeed. I do not think that the person who does not believe in the "validity" of the second marriage would consider remarriage. The person to do so would definitely have to believe that God's forgiveness broke the initial bond, though there is nowhere in scripture that directly justifies that position.

So, CEW, may I ask you this question straight out...do you or do you not think that it is okay for a divorced Christian to remarry (let us assume that the circumstances of the divorce were bad, perhaps even horrific, but not adultery)? Would you?

Excluded however are Pastors, as I firmly believe that no remarried person - unless the first spouse dies - should serve in that role. [/qb]

Oh really?! So-oooo reconcile this then if you can:

1 Peter 2:9
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.


Aren't all who have become disciples of Christ considered amongst the above group not just ordained ministers? Aren't we all called to go into all the world and preach and teach? What in your mind makes ministers who are ordained different where re-marriage is concerned?

[Guest]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by accepted2:
[qb] Promised myself to stay out of this topic

Why does fornication dissolve a marriage bond?

Paul said I speak to those who know the law. Know ye not that a woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives for if she marries another while he is alive she will be called an adulturest.
But if her husband be dead, she is free to marry another.
Paul continued that we were married to the law once, the law was a faithful partner, we could not live up to the holiness of the law.
We could never be free from this legalistic taskmaster. So to be free we had to die so that we could break our bond with the law and remarry Jesus.

So the scripture does acknowledge remarriage.

But the Law was holy, so it could not die since it would not commit adultery
Therefore are ye dead to sin, so ye may marry another, Jesus Christ.

Two things are evident here, if the law could sin we could break the bond.

Simarily if our partner sins unto death the bonds are broken. Under the law all moral sins bore the death penalty.

Today by grace, we forgive. Jesus said Moses allowed divorce because of the hardness of men's heart - no forgiveness - it was not intended by God for us not to forgive.

The law did not pronounce forgiveness, those caught in adultery were killed, so if her husband committed adultery she was free to marry another.

The issue then is whether one exercises law or grace to a fallen spouse, Jesus clearly expouses the higher road of grace.

However realising many will not forgive because of hardness of heart he relented that the sexual infidelity cause an exception.

Now if Jesus says it is an exception it is an exception.

Paul introduces the disertion situation, he advocates if the unbeliever departs then the believer is no longer bonded.

Paul is using the same bond principle for marriage in Romans as he is in Corinthians, however many says he means remain unmarried. He does not say that he says quite plainly the believer is no longer bound. The marriage is broken.

A lot of what we view of marriage and divorce is cultural. The scripture clearly allows for divorce and remarriage, it is not advertised how to just like it is not advertised that "backsliders can be redeemed" but we know they can be.

God hates a divorce but he does not disallow it or remarriage under the right conditions. He merely sets a standard that preists in the old testament not be married to a divorced woman. [/qb]

This may sound very good to your ears as usual (((Accepted))) but it only sounds like a huge SPIN on interpretation to make justification for remarriage plausible. I am looking for a clear cut response that does not involve twisting of the meaning of scripture to fit an individual fancy. I am leaning more towards CEW's explanation of plain and simple GRACE.

[Guest]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]

Originally posted by Jedi l:
Hmmm! short memory...but what you wrote above is certainly a far cry from a couple months ago, particularly your second paragraph on the subject of remarriage.

I am more willing to trust your memory if I can see what I said to the contrary in black and white. Quite frankly, what I have stated have always been my position and anyone with whom I have had any discussion on the issue of divorce and remarriage knows that.

[/qb]

No argument here because you know if I could I would and I agree wholeheartedly with putting things in black and white. Unfortunately the great debate was wiped out one day when Beluved did a clean sweep of the forum. I was not around the day to save the thread. But anyway thanks for your responses they make a lot more sense these days. Back then you were adamant that a divorcee was free to remarry and your response didnot carry the explanation that you are now giving. Thanks.

[Guest]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Many Christian denominations do not allow remarriage, unless it is remarriage to the same spouses that divorced. The reason many churches do not allow remarriage is because of a faulty interpretation of Matthew 19:9:

I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."

Without studying the cultural background or using some common sense, at first glance, it appears that Jesus is against any form of remarriage, and thus, considers all remarriage to simply be adultery. If that is the case, you can imagine the untold harm that would bring to divorced people. If they are not allowed to remarry, then they might be doomed to a life of loneliness, despair, and sensual temptations.

Even the Catholic Church, which interprets the passage as forbidding any remarriage, has been creative in getting around this issue by using the doctrine of "annulment". An annulment is the declaration that a marriage never really existed, or was void from the beginning. Many Catholics, in order to get remarried in the Church, ask for an annulment of their previous marriage. If it is granted, the Catholic Church is free to marry the person because in their view, the previous marriage never really existed in the first place, and thus, the new marriage is considered the first one.

Protestants have not been as creative. They usually have gotten stuck with their hard-line interpretation. I have seen ministers that—because of their compassion and desire to see people happy—desperately wanted to marry a couple, but because one of them was previously married, they could not perform the wedding. Often, they send them to me, because they know I will do the wedding. They have even attended the weddings and have congratulated the couples, but, because of their stringent church laws, they could not perform the wedding. Surely, they must think that something is wrong with their church rules, but they don’t know how to answer the objections to remarriage.

So, how can we make sense of this passage? The answer is really not as complicated as it first appears. You see remarriage has never been an issue to Jews, and in Jesus' day, any Jew was free to remarry so long as they were legally divorced. The same is true in most modern cultures. So long as both have been legally divorced, the couple is free to get married again. No problem.

The trouble Jesus saw in the law of divorce, as in any law, is it doesn’t deal with motives. The law cannot change one’s heart. Jesus let the people know that God never intended for divorce to take place from the beginning, and so He never made provision for divorce. This prompted the Pharisees to question Jesus on it:

"Why then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?" Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. (Matt 19:7-8)

Jesus showed the cause of divorce was the hardness of heart. Jesus made men face their motive for divorce. Why did they want to get divorced in the first place?

In Jesus' day, as in our day, many men in order to marry their mistresses often divorced their wives. Adultery was wrong, so the Jews in order to avoid or end adulterous affairs often divorced their wives to marry the "lady in waiting". Jesus was saying that God knew their hearts and motives, and that they were using the law to get their new wives. He was saying that if you marry your mistresses then you still are an adulterer, because no piece of paper could end adultery. They were already adulterers before the divorce, and so the divorce did not end adultery, instead the new marriage was simply the continuation of adultery.

Unfortunately, many Bible interpreters mistakenly assume that all remarriage is adultery. They often see Jesus saying, "If you divorce your wives, and later meet someone that you fall in love with, you cannot marry her because that would be adultery." No! Jesus was using divorce and marriage in the same context. The divorce was for the purpose of remarriage. We could phrase the passage correctly in this way: "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, in order to marry another woman commits adultery." I think this makes much more sense than some legalistic, non-sensible interpretation that keeps divorced people from marrying again.

Let's now look at what Paul said about remarriage. Paul uses the words of Jesus in explaining what a Christian should do if she should get a divorce: "But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife" (1 Cor 7:11). Here Paul says that a divorced wife should remain unmarried. (It is interesting to note that Paul fails to give the same injunction to unmarried husbands, although I think it should be assumed he meant the same for the husband.)

Now, it is the word "remain" that we need to focus on, since he said "remain" unmarried. The Greek word remain is meno1, and interestingly it is not used in the Bible to necessarily refer to permanency. In that same chapter he says, "Each one should remain in the situation which he was in when God called him. Were you a slave when you were called? Don't let it trouble you—although if you can gain your freedom, do so" (1 Cor 7:20-21). So even a slave is to "remain" a slave, but not necessarily for a lifetime. He is free to change his status and get freedom.

Paul also uses this word for married and unmarried people, "Brothers, each man, as responsible to God, should remain in the situation God called him to" (1 Cor 7:24). Then he gives an example of what he meant, and in it he directly states that remarriage is not a sin. The passage is in 1 Corinthians 7:27-28:

Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned... (KJV, emphasis added)

Who has not sinned by getting married? Both the virgin and the person who was loosed from a wife have not sinned. The virgin is the one who has never married; the one loosed from the wife is one who was married but got a divorced. The word "loosed" is the word for "divorced". Paul clearly says that none of them have sinned by getting married. This makes it abundantly clear that Paul never saw remarriage as a sin.

Paul was teaching what Jesus taught concerning divorce and remarriage. He was saying that if you divorce, then remain single—that is to make it your state unless God calls you to get married. He was saying, Don’t rush into a new marriage after divorce, instead, be patient and wait until God brings you a spouse. He was also concerned of people’s motives for the divorce. He did not want people to divorce "in order to" marry someone else, because that would be adultery.

In summary: the thing God hates is divorce, not marriage. God believes in marriage, even, the marriage of those who have been divorced. It is wrong to ship divorced people to the island of celibacy. Instead, we should rejoice when people get married, no matter the past. God forgives, so why should He hold a past divorce against them?

If we really believe that God has forgiven people for their divorces, then why do we still hold it against them by refusing them a church wedding? The problem is a superficial reading of the scripture, and of course, church dogmas add rules that chain people to bondage.

I am concerned that many will use my answer to justify getting a divorce. They might say, "Good, I can divorce my wife or husband so I can marry my true love." Wait a minute, God knows your heart. You can’t fool Him. You don’t divorce to marry someone else—we just covered that. In another article I will discuss great reasons for staying in a marriage, but for now, I hope I have answered your question.

1 Meno is used in the following passages: Matthew 10:11, Luke 24:29, John 1:39, John 4:40, and Rev 17:10. Although meno can be used to speak of permanency, the above passages prove that it does not always mean permanency. Regardless of the how the word is used in various passages, it is the context that determines its meaning, thus more importantly, Paul uses this word in 1 Corinthians 7 to mean "wait but not necessarily for a lifetime".

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[Guest]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

In Romans 7:1-6, Paul declared that a woman who leaves her husband and marries another man is called an adulteress as long as her first husband is alive. Doesn't this indicate that the apostle didn't consider remarriage after divorce a valid option?

No, it doesn't. First of all, in Romans 7:1-6 the apostle was not dealing with the subject of divorce and remarriage. He was simply illustrating the truth that we have been freed from the law system. In that we have died to all that we were before we were saved, we are now set free.

Second, Paul doesn't mention the wife obtaining a divorce. A Jewish woman at that time would have had to go to the Roman civil authorities to do so. Such a divorce was not recognized as valid by the Jewish religious leadership.

Another possibility is that the apostle was thinking of a woman who ignored or bypassed the Jewish divorce laws. It appears that this was done among the elite Jews like the Herods. A man and woman simply left their mates and started living together as husband and wife.

Whether Paul was thinking about a woman who obtained a divorce through Roman law or changed partners without legal action is not clear. It really doesn't matter. It is not relevant to the truth he was illustrating.

Source

[acceptedtoday]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Jedi l:
[qb]

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]

Originally posted by Jedi l:
Hmmm! short memory...but what you wrote above is certainly a far cry from a couple months ago, particularly your second paragraph on the subject of remarriage.

I am more willing to trust your memory if I can see what I said to the contrary in black and white. Quite frankly, what I have stated have always been my position and anyone with whom I have had any discussion on the issue of divorce and remarriage knows that.

[/qb]

No argument here because you know if I could I would and I agree wholeheartedly with putting things in black and white. Unfortunately the great debate was wiped out one day when Beluved did a clean sweep of the forum. I was not around the day to save the thread. But anyway thanks for your responses they make a lot more sense these days. Back then you were adamant that a divorcee was free to remarry and your response didnot carry the explanation that you are now giving. Thanks. [/qb]

Jedi,
I sense that debate did damage to our relationship here and I half decided not to post on this topic, should have obeyed my better angels, but since you have put it out there, best we address this.

Our disagreement was not divorce and remarriage per se it was a sidebar that grew out of your assertion that there was a difference in Holy Christian marriage and other marriages and God only recognised Holy Christian marriages as binding.

Let me state my position here without apologies, no one have to adhere of agree, this is a debate we all come to the forum with our POV there's merit and demerit in all POV the only constant is does scripture supports it.

Lets start where the bible starts

Deuteronomy 24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
Deu 24:2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.

The Bible states that divorce is permissable and that the divorced woman can remarry.

The issue then as now was on what grounds could a divorce be permitted. The Law rested on the interpretation of uncleaness.

06172 `ervah {er-vaw'}
from 06168; TWOT - 1692b; n f
AV - nakedness 50, nakedness + 01320 1, shame 1, unclean 1, uncleanness 1; 54
1) nakedness, nudity, shame, pudenda 1a) pudenda (implying shameful exposure) 1b) nakedness of a thing, indecency, improper behaviour 1c) exposed, undefended (fig.)

Two definitions of uncleaness became the legal terms for divorce,
1. shameness of the thing
2. sexual indecency

Ezekiel 16:36 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thy filthiness was poured out, and thy nakedness discovered through thy whoredoms with thy lovers, and with all the idols of thy abominations, and by the blood of thy children, which thou didst give unto them;
Ezekiel 16:37 Behold, therefore I will gather all thy lovers, with whom thou hast taken pleasure, and all them that thou hast loved, with all them that thou hast hated; I will even gather them round about against thee, and will discover thy nakedness unto them, that they may see all thy nakedness.

Whereas nakedness can be intrepreted as incest and is many times in the books of the Law, the more expansive use of indecency used by the prophets was sexual and religious adultery. That is giving yourself to multiple spouses or giving yourself to multiple doctrines (gods).

cont'd