Portmore Boycott...

[niceniss]

Re: Portmore Boycott...

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bway... Blackstar, di lack of compassion or capasity to think beyond dem own circumstances is just too common among people living away from Jamaica...



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Compassion is nice in bed, but are rarely seen in business and politics.



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I mentioned Compassion in the same tone of your arguments. you have yet to point out one single benefit. all u seem to be going from is that other parts of the world are doing it, so why shouldnt portmore ppl.

what have u mentioned to counteract the very real point of more bottle neck congestion being created at the end of the toll road?
What have u mentioned re economic benefits when the revenue will go from jamaica to france?
what have u mentioned re the hijacking of a taxpaid road without providing an alternate route?
what?

[niceniss]

Re: Portmore Boycott...

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bway... Blackstar, di lack of compassion or capasity to think beyond dem own circumstances is just too common among people living away from Jamaica...

Pure vacuous, unsubstantiated pronouncements whey noh mek one striking sence(obviously) dem carry on wid... is a shame doah.

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It's been an interesting discussion nonetheless and given me an opportunity to look into turnpikes, toll roads, the reasons for them, public policy, and such.

As far as I can see, tolls are usually instituted to *decrease* traffic so governments also ensure there are alternate routes and means of transport, e.g. the toll to enter London being a case in point.

However, the GOJ seems to have done the exact opposite at every opportunity! It's to the point of even being penalized if they provide an alternative to the toll road.

Whatever the outcome, it's still the citizens of JA who will suffer the consequences and that is just not fair.

One question that comes to my mind though, is why were the protests of the residents so ineffective? Lack of media attention? Not enough economic clout? Are the residents' advocates not up to the job? Where was the opposition during all of this? asleep?

The case of the "Portmore Boycott" is an interesting look at the state of public debate in JA.

ETA Before those of us ah foreign get too complacent, look at this page and comment number 10 in particular.

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I just came off the phone with someone who migrated to the states (New York) from Portmore a month ago.
He told me that the reason why they didnt take the issue to the privy council was because they couldnt afford it. They tried with the local courts, but as you know, they are controlled by the GOJ. The opposition is taking the case to the courts now...

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where were they when all this went down?

I believe the toll will be a hardship for many, but if they lose, maybe as a compromise, they could consider letting the residents could purchase a passcard for US$500 per year or some other figure.

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did u read the article I provided earlier? They were present at one of the initial meeting by portmore residents after the govt announcement. They are still battling the case in court on behalf of the residents now.
Remember the time-spance here. two to three years.

[RichD]

Re: Portmore Boycott...


more....
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Pickersgill heckled over Passage Fort Drive expansion

TANEISHA DAVIDSON, Observer staff reporter
Thursday, July 20, 2006



Transport Minister, Robert Pickersgill (left), speaks with residents yesterday in Passage Fort, St Catherine. (Photo: Garfield Robinson)

TRANSPORT Minister Robert Pickersgill was yesterday heckled by residents of Passage Fort, St Catherine during a meeting to explain the expansion of the Passage Fort Drive roadway.

The project has already started, but the residents say the construction of the four-lane road would jeopardise the safety of their children, including those attending schools in the area.

In addition, people operating businesses in the area also complained that they would lose income while the road was being rehabilitated. They also noted that while they are in support of the much need rehabilitation, the widening of the roadway would reduce the number of parking spaces they would have for customers.

"We don't want a four- lane road," said Angela Jennings, who owns a bar on Passage Fort Drive.

"Where are the children going to play... since out here is like Dover Raceway?", Jennings asked during the heated meeting yesterday between the residents and the transport minister.

"When people step out of them house them step on the road," she told the meeting, which Jean-Noel Foulard, project and branch director at Bouygues and Ivan Anderson from the National Road Operating and Construction Company (NROCC) also attended.

The residents also complained that they were not given sufficient information about the rehabilitation programme.
Amidst boos, repeated interruptions and heckling, Minister Pickersgill expressed his disappointment that the residents were not 'futuristic in their thinking.

"To forego a four-lane for a two-lane in a growing place like this is short-sighted; and it is anti-development," he said. "You have to be visionaries and look to the future...," he said.
He also noted that the fact that businesses would be temporarily displaced was "the price of development".

Bouygues Travaux Publics - the company responsible for building sections of Highway 2000 - is also responsible for the road rehabilitation programme.

The $150 million rehabilitation programme will span between Dyke Road and the Gregory Park main road and is expected to be completed within five months.

But according to Anderson, the road was being rehabilitated not only to improve the existing road, but also to address the sewage draining problem that has plagued the community.



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[Pepper]

Re: Portmore Boycott...

I mentioned Compassion in the same tone of your arguments. you have yet to point out one single benefit. all u seem to be going from is that other parts of the world are doing it, so why shouldnt portmore ppl.

People in JA, Portmore included, do not need to be coddled. They are adults, that will have to face difficulties in life like everyone else in the world. This toll road is just another issue they will have to deal with. Why should they be pampered?

Donnika, you live a Canada....yuh nuh pay tax? Do you feel your local and national govts always have your best interest at heart?



what have u mentioned to counteract the very real point of more bottle neck congestion being created at the end of the toll road?

The toll will not be the cause of the congestion. That is an issue of traffic flow, and civic planning. The road is there, if it is used heavily, tolled or free, there will be congestion.

What have u mentioned re economic benefits when the revenue will go from jamaica to france?
GOJ feels it is more economical for France to maintain the road. Again, these types of arrangements are commonplace, and becoming more and more norm. On all my excursions on various parts of HWY 2000, I have seen Jamaicans working.


what have u mentioned re the hijacking of a taxpaid road without providing an alternate route? when an alternate is provided, it is never the shorter, faster, nicer road. Yuh want to drive on good road and reach fast...pay a toll.

[mangoskin]

Re: Portmore Boycott...

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a compromise, they could consider letting the residents could purchase a passcard for US$500 per year or some other figure.

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did u read the article I provided earlier? They were present at one of the initial meeting by portmore residents after the govt announcement. They are still battling the case in court on behalf of the residents now.
Remember the time-spance here. two to three years.

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thanks,

BTW they should consider setting up a bank account to solicit funds for the privy council appeal

[mangoskin]

Re: Portmore Boycott...

I suppose there is no space for atemporary access road so that ppl could still get to the businesses

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Portmore Boycott...

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what have u mentioned to counteract the very real point of more bottle neck congestion being created at the end of the toll road?

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The toll will not be the cause of the congestion. That is an issue of traffic flow, and civic planning. The road is there, if it is used heavily, tolled or free, there will be congestion.

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The toll was road touted as a way to reduce traffic congestion in and out of Portmore.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Portmore Boycott...

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What have u mentioned re economic benefits when the revenue will go from jamaica to france?

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GOJ feels it is more economical for France to maintain the road. Again, these types of arrangements are commonplace, and becoming more and more norm. On all my excursions on various parts of HWY 2000, I have seen Jamaicans working.

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what have u mentioned re the hijacking of a taxpaid road without providing an alternate route?

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when an alternate is provided, it is never the shorter, faster, nicer road. Yuh want to drive on good road and reach fast...pay a toll.

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There are alternate roads, there is an alternative or what is touted as an alternative that cannot be significantly improved because of no competition agreement(s) with the developer.

The other thing is do you thing that the Mandela Highway is any kind of alternative when it is proven that even when the expected load capacity of the Toll Bridge is satisfied the Mandela Highway was jammed with wall to wall traffic that caused more delays that usual.

Since you are such an expert at International agreements, especially Highways and Tolling, tell me is it normal:

For the Government of a country to seize bridges paid for previously by residents then convert it to a toll road?

In these International agreements is it normal for the toll operators to demand non-compete clauses that cause the alternative to be kept in a sorry state and to block long established train services from being re-started?

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Portmore Boycott...

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I suppose there is no space for atemporary access road so that ppl could still get to the businesses

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Y not?
The bridge has six lanes.
The old bridge is still there.
The residents can get special passes.

[Q3210]

Re: Portmore Boycott...

Latest News! Is the $60 charge has been reduced not to 50, not to 40, but to $30 on motor cars.
I heard this from one of my colleagues at work a few hours ago.
I have to ask why was it put at $60 in the first place if they can now reduce the charge 100%?
Anyone want to bet that no big-heads will roll because of this.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Portmore Boycott...

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Latest News! Is the $60 charge has been reduced not to 50, not to 40, but to $30 on motor cars.
I heard this from one of my colleagues at work a few hours ago.
I have to ask why was it put at $60 in the first place if they can now reduce the charge 100%?
Anyone want to bet that no big-heads will roll because of this.

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I don't think it is true but if it is so, you know what happened. Think if of the JLP's promise of Free Education in their pre-2002 Manifesto!

They have promised that if they come to power they will reduce the toll to Ja$30. The mere announcement will put untold pressure on the PNP MHRs in that region.

[Q3210]

Re: Portmore Boycott...

Easy come easy go. By way of how the grease allows such diversity in price, perhaps by a mere twiddle of a fiddle, the toll can fly up to and above $60 in no time.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Portmore Boycott...

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Easy come easy go. By way of how the grease allows such diversity in price, perhaps by a mere twiddle of a fiddle, the toll can fly up to and above $60 in no time.

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Well I don't think any agreement is safe with the way that it is tied to the USA inflation rate, bond rate and the price of the $Ja. against the $USA. Of course there are mechanisms to cushion these increases and the JLP is proposing to some of these methods. In the end all Jamaica will bear the costs of any reduction of tolls and even if as is right now.

[Q3210]

Re: Portmore Boycott...

So be it. All of Jamaica should pay and not only just users of the toll road.
Actually people like Pickersgill, PNP Treasurer Vin Lawrence and Davies should pay by other means.
As Mottie has reminded us, Charles I King of England was beheaded for misappropriately using public money without the consent of Parliament.
But Jamaica in 2006 has no way any semblance to the civility and honour of the era of Charles as much as how many centuries ago.

[niceniss]

Re: Portmore Boycott...

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Easy come easy go. By way of how the grease allows such diversity in price, perhaps by a mere twiddle of a fiddle, the toll can fly up to and above $60 in no time.

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No, its a tactic I heard of from the inception. They want the money to be $30 originally but fear complaints because of the tolling aspect itself, so give an astronomical price at first, after protests pretend to aquiest by reducing the toll price to the original. they hope people will buy this "concession"...