US issues stinging report on "Dudus" extradition

[Dyoll_73]

Re: Scotland Yard's SO11, file on the Presidential Click.

I salute the Attorney General. A key element of due process is that evidence must be obtained by legal means. Peter Phillips, who ought to know better, is engaging in grandstanding when he claims that this is for the courts to decide, when he knows fully well that the AG is invested with this authority according to the extradition treaty. Then again, he had demonstrated himself to be incompetent when he was Minister of National (in)Security.

BTW, what do make of the adjunct professor of law, one David Rowe, who has been rambling incessantly about, basically, the need for Jamaica to acquiesce without delay? Imagine, someone who claims to be a lawyer, insisting that Jamaica comply with some request that is of questionable legal validity! He has even claimed to have close ties with insiders in O-bama's WH, and know what the repercussions will be if the demand is not met.

[Q3210]

Re: Scotland Yard's SO11, file on the Presidential Click.

Let us see now that justice will be for all in Jamaica especially now that Mr. Golding has stood up to a foreign power that is obtaining so-called evidence by illegal means, wire-tapping.
Buju is incarcerated on the same means, this wire-tapping.

Remember a man named McGreggor who was involved in some wire-tapping problems during the PNP`s time in office some 10 or so years ago. Whatever happened on that one?

If I understand correctly, Govt. is there to protect its citizens and to preserve their unalienable rights.What Golding is doing now should not be baby news to us all. The securing of rights should have been a prime responsibility of the Govt. for many years or from the existence of Jamaica as an independent nation.
No wonder this whole new scenario looks so strange as if we are defending criminals. The wool has firmly enclosed over the eyes of many Jamaicans because we have been conditioned to look down on many and look up to a few of our own people because of status and position.
We still have our bones attached to the paradigms of the plantation and it is time now to pull ourselves away from such doubtful thinking.
Is it Mr. Golding who will be leading the way to this one riddance of social evil?

[mountaingal]

Re: Scotland Yard's SO11, file on the Presidential Click.

i'm still finding it a bit hard to work up the outrage over the extradition request. take your point tg about the difference in ministers over justice and police, but my basic point still stands, nuff jamaicans are victimized by the state, instead of being protected by it.

my second point is that it may feel good to position the us as a bully and we, lickle jamaica, are not going to just laydown and roll over.

but reading about some of those connections between dudus and crime in overseas communities - what would jamaica do if the tables were turned? what if it were someone in another jurisdiction that is known to the jamaican police for wreaking criminal havoc in jamaican communities - wouldnt we want to also have that person dealt with?

[Panajar]

Re: Scotland Yard's SO11, file on the Presidential Click.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Q3210</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let us see now that justice will be for all in Jamaica especially now that Mr. Golding has stood up to a foreign power that is obtaining so-called evidence by illegal means, wire-tapping.
Buju is incarcerated on the same means, this wire-tapping.

Remember a man named McGreggor who was involved in some wire-tapping problems during the PNP`s time in office some 10 or so years ago. Whatever happened on that one?

If I understand correctly, Govt. is there to protect its citizens and to preserve their unalienable rights.What Golding is doing now should not be baby news to us all. The securing of rights should have been a prime responsibility of the Govt. for many years or from the existence of Jamaica as an independent nation.
No wonder this whole new scenario looks so strange as if we are defending criminals. The wool has firmly enclosed over the eyes of many Jamaicans because we have been conditioned to look down on many and look up to a few of our own people because of status and position.
We still have our bones attached to the paradigms of the plantation and it is time now to pull ourselves away from such doubtful thinking.
Is it Mr. Golding who will be leading the way to this one riddance of social evil?

</div></div>

Is that you Mutty Perkins?..Dont be naive, the Jamaican state has never been concerned about the rights of the &quot;average citizens&quot;, fact is <span style="font-weight: bold">DUDUS IS NOT</span> a average citizen,and every Jamaican know this.Where was Bruce and is cabinet when the police murdered <span style="font-weight: bold">DJ KENTUCKY KID</span>,just because he had a traffic accident with a police car ,the guy even predict his own death in the papers, and report the threats to the highest authorities in the land ,yet he was killed by agents of the state,yet these killers did not suffered any repercussions.

Bottom line Bruce refuse to extradite Dudus because he is beholden to him.If it was you or any average Jamaican Bruce would have signed the papers with out a second thought.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Scotland Yard's SO11, file on the Presidential Click.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">////what would jamaica do if the tables were turned? what if it were someone in another jurisdiction that is known to the jamaican police for wreaking criminal havoc in jamaican communities - wouldnt we want to also have that person dealt with?

</div></div>

Do you know Dudus to wreak havoc n anyone's community?
Where in the USA?
Why isn't he charged for a crime in Jamaica?
How do you propose that he be dealt with, by using illegal means to to remove him from Jamaica and hand him over to the USA?

When it comes to Tivoli Gardens there is <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">special rule</span>.
Kill anyone in Tivoli, extradite anyone the USA ask for and the weight of public opinion will exonerate you.

Folks like you don't live in Jamaica perhaps have very little connection with Jamaica except a bulletin board called jamaicans.com so you can write any nonsense you feel.

Dudua is not the only Jamaican that the current Government refused to extradite. This not a special case the colour of folks jerseys and the historic disposition towards Tivoli Gardens is what is causing the problem.

[mountaingal]

Re: Scotland Yard's SO11, file on the Presidential Click.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Folks like you don't live in Jamaica perhaps have very little connection with Jamaica except a bulletin board called jamaicans.com so you can write any nonsense you feel.
</div></div>
right backatcha.

according to what i've read in this thread, this digging in of heels is unprecedented. if he is extradited, will he go thru a trial and then be proven innocent?

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Scotland Yard's SO11, file on the Presidential Click.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">according to what i've read in this thread, this digging in of heels is unprecedented. if he is extradited, will he go thru a trial and then be proven innocent?</div></div>

This thread is not all what pass for arguments in this matter, but i suppose it will suffice for folks like you.
It has been the way with you and other Jamaicans here for years. Put on the blinders and only read and respond to the gossip and rumours.

In your mind deport him first, to hell with our Constitution and oh he may or not be found guilty in the USA Courts.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Scotland Yard's SO11, file on the Presidential Click.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Peter Phillips, who ought to know better, is engaging in grandstanding when he claims that this is for the courts to decide, when he knows fully well that the AG is invested with this authority according to the extradition treaty. Then again, he had demonstrated himself to be incompetent when he was Minister of National (in)Security. </div></div>Peter Phillips is for one thing....the Comrade PNP he will do or say anything to benefit his party.
This my Member of Parliament so I know all his associations.
It strange that they have tapes on Dudus but the other Comrade Dons are left unscathed, except the ones he wanted to take out such as Bulbie.

If this is is ticket to glory then he riding the wrong horse. The USA is not going to be able to protect him from his folly.
No wonder all those computers came up missing from his office......<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">what the hell secrets did they contain?</span>

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Scotland Yard's SO11, file on the Presidential Click.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">right backatcha. </div></div>

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Forgot to answer this insult</span> unlike you and others who seek power over what others Jamaicans think and live Jamaica only on the Board my only connection is with Jamaica. I care for no where else. It is precisely because of folks like yourself why some of us cannot live in Jamaica because you over the years an never seen a corrupt Comrade Government that you did not like and would not shill for.

[Panajar]

Re: Scotland Yard's SO11, file on the Presidential Click.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Do you know Dudus to wreak havoc n anyone's community?</div></div>

<span style="font-size: 17pt">The Seaga interview</span> (HE SHOULD KNOW)

Published: Monday | December 7, 2009


Seaga

Excerpts from an interview by Anthony Abrahams with then Opposition leader Edward Seaga on KLAS's 'Breakfast Club', which was published in The Gleaner on September 29, 1994.

Newspaper headline: 'Putting my career and life on the line'.

Q. Are you saying then that there are other reasons, apart from your report, for having holding<span style="font-weight: bold"> Michael 'Dudus' Coke?
</span>
A. The fact that he is a gang leader, none of what is happening in West Kingston could have happened without his authority or without his vesting and I am the one that is getting the blame from communities around and from the public outside by saying, this can't happen unless Mr. Seaga sanction it. When I am unable to stop what is happening because they tell me I don't buy them guns and I don't give them shots and therefore I can't tell what to do.

<span style="font-size: 17pt">Q. Well, it is a little bit more complicated than that Mr Seaga, what people are saying now has happened is that you have lost control over these fellows and that the 13 names you have given are the names of dissidents and that really these people have only heard so far that they are no longer doing your bidding. That's what been said.
</span>
A. &quot;Well, let us make that clear now. I have no control over these fellows, no control whatsoever. That has nothing to do with politics. I have no lack of control in terms of politics in the constituency but I have no control over these 13 men who have a pattern of brutality that I will not tolerate, will not accept and will fight against. They have blown off the leg of a young girl who at 20 years old has to walk with crutches. They have killed two sons of one lady within three days, they have killed a seven-year-old, a nine-year-old boy.

They sent 15-year-old boys with pack guns into the Rema community in order to chastise, in order to mete out what they call justice. To fire six shots into a man and kill him and that sort of thing I am not going to tolerate it. I have no control over these 13 and I don't want to bear any responsibility for them. I don't want them to have any control over the constituency.

Q. Mr Seaga, from the information you have, can you say if and when these men are rounded there would be a sustainable calm and peace?

A. Calm and peace. There would be joy, there would be celebration in West Kingston. I have already called them together, them and others and told them that this has to stop and told them if you do not stop it then I would have another way to do so, and the other way I have to do so is to go to the police on the matter.

So they are not in any doubt as to what I intend to do and how I would do it for I have already told them that. I have told them that if 10 of you die not 10 people will follow you to your grave because you are so hated within the community. If these 13 are taken out of the community, the community would react with joy and celebration.

Q. This list of 13, Mr Seaga, are there only 13 people at the bottom of all this violence ... I mean.







LINK

[mountaingal]

Re: Scotland Yard's SO11, file on the Presidential Click.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">right backatcha. </div></div>

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Forgot to answer this insult</span> unlike you and others who seek power over what others Jamaicans think and live Jamaica only on the Board my only connection is with Jamaica. I care for no where else. It is precisely because of folks like yourself why some of us cannot live in Jamaica because you over the years an never seen a corrupt Comrade Government that you did not like and would not shill for. </div></div>

if a laff a pop.

tg, y'a joka. walk good.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Scotland Yard's SO11, file on the Presidential Click.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Panajar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Do you know Dudus to wreak havoc n anyone's community?</div></div>

<span style="font-size: 17pt">The Seaga interview</span> (HE SHOULD KNOW)

Published: Monday | December 7, 2009


Seaga </div></div>

You seemed to have missed the question?

Go forward and re-read it slowly <span style="font-style: italic">(I know Comrades can barely read and comprehend to save their life, but this is pathetic!)</span>.

Seems like whatever his youthful indiscretions were it was taken care off. All 13 it seems stayed out of trouble because the police had nothing on them till the 90s when they killed most of them in suspicious circumstances.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Scotland Yard's SO11, file on the Presidential Click.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> if a laff a pop.

tg, y'a joka. walk good. </div></div>

You should laugh. At least you still can, safe in Canada!

[andronian2]

Re: US issues stinging report on &quot;Dudus&quot; extradition

Bway...a ongl Humano naa chat soso politics an a comment pon di other significant issue at hand.
Jamaicans love di two party political intrigue sah...lol

BTW, I think a real problem for the PM's argument exists if there is precedent for Jamaica extraditing individuals based on illegally obtained wiretapping evidence.
It'll be especially bad if the current administration were responsible for granting any of those requests.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: US issues stinging report on &quot;Dudus&quot; extradition

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: andronian2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bway...a ongl Humano naa chat soso politics an a comment pon di other significant issue at hand.
Jamaicans love di two party political intrigue sah...lol </div></div>
There are other dimensions to this argument and since the political aspect was raised why not discuss it.
This matter s very political and the JLP Government had to make both a legal decision but also a very political decision that is rooted in the events of the 70s, we must overstand that and deal with it as well.

There is nothing wrong with politics it the only way to organize modern societies. There is something g wrong with folks who think there is something wrong with politics.

The Two-Party dominant System has been with us in Jamaica since before independence and we may as well recognize it and deal with it in a rational and thoughtful manner.

Of course rational and thoughtful must start with folks who are themselves rational and thoughtful.....like for years i have often wondered aloud why this forum is called Jamaica News and <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Politrix</span>.......tells you what it is about don't it?