..did Capitalism fail?

[Tuff Gong]

Re: ..did Capitalism fail?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: xKs</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> nice word &quot;discomfort&quot;

bout the automakers.. whats the score?
Unions really negociate $50-80/hr just fi assembly worker whose only function is to throw on a part pon a car??
Is the US automobile industry problem really just exhuberance?</div></div>
It is much more that exuberance. It is a lack of innovation; even though they have largely solved the quality issues the reputation still follows them. They are getting killed in the stylish economy car department and because the USA is so wedded to fossil fuels, when the price of gas was low they killed off all their alternative fuels preojects.

[Sinco01]

Re: ..did Capitalism fail?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: xKs</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> nice word &quot;discomfort&quot;

bout the automakers.. whats the score?
Unions really negociate $50-80/hr just fi assembly worker whose only function is to throw on a part pon a car??
Is the US automobile industry problem really just exhuberance?</div></div>
It is much more that exuberance. It is a <span style="font-weight: bold">lack of innovation</span>; even though they have largely solved the quality issues the reputation still follows them. They are getting killed in the stylish economy car department and because the USA is so wedded to fossil fuels, when the price of gas was low they <span style="font-weight: bold">killed off all their alternative fuels </span>preojects. </div></div>


i agree with the &quot;lack of innovation&quot; part of that statement
but not the killing off of alternatives ..

Detroit has been mingling in the &quot;alternatives&quot; over the last 10 yrs ..

they just have been consistent and devoted ..

[Tuff Gong]

Re: ..did Capitalism fail?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sinco01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i agree with the &quot;lack of innovation&quot; part of that statement
but not the killing off of alternatives ..

Detroit has been mingling in the &quot;alternatives&quot; over the last 10 yrs ..

they just have been consistent and devoted .. </div></div>....no GM actually killed one famous project. Chopped up the molds and forbade persons to speak about it. They are all back in now but Alt. Fuel or any radical vehicles for that matter has a long lead-time.

[Derek]

Re: ..did Capitalism fail?

Capitalism failed due to man's inherent greed.

And, by bailing out corporations (nationalising?) aren't governments using a 'communist' solution to the problem?

Didn't Castro always say capitalism isn't sustainable? (I'm not a communist by the way.)

[Tuff Gong]

Re: ..did Capitalism fail?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Capitalism failed due to man's inherent greed.

And, by bailing out corporations (nationalising?) aren't governments using a 'communist' solution to the problem?

Didn't Castro always say capitalism isn't sustainable? (I'm not a communist by the way.)
</div></div>....Derek I don't think you are credible you cannot bring yourself to hold any intelligent conversation on Government or Political Economy. <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">BTW</span> Bailing Out is not synonymous with Communism.

[Derek]

Re: ..did Capitalism fail?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Capitalism failed due to man's inherent greed.

And, by bailing out corporations (nationalising?) aren't governments using a 'communist' solution to the problem?

Didn't Castro always say capitalism isn't sustainable? (I'm not a communist by the way.)
</div></div>....Derek I don't think you are credible you cannot bring yourself to hold any intelligent conversation on Government or Political Economy. <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">BTW</span> Bailing Out is not synonymous with Communism. </div></div>

Nationalising (bailing out) an industry is a very socialist solution. If the government puts money in, it has a stake.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: ..did Capitalism fail?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nationalising (bailing out) an industry is a very socialist solution. If the government puts money in, it has a stake. </div></div>Bailing Out is not synonymous with Nationalization either. You can bailout with a Loan. A number of European Governments operated a hybrid system where parts of their economy was Socialist and others parts were market driven, in such a context the Government directly owning failing assets is not great departure from their standard practice.

In the USA it would be a great shift if the Government started owning Industries and Institutions but it would not be Socialism or Communism. The USA has bailed out industries before without directly owning them and even if does take ownership stake in a number of Industries and Institutions it does not mean the failure of the Market System because you have to look at the reason and not just the outcome.

The USA Financial Market represents only small fraction of USA GDP and the SubPrime Credit Instruments was only about 7% of that sector, (albeit a dangerous 7%), when that collapsed it caused a panic that spread throughout the worlds economy, freezing up credit in all countries. If this Financial Market had been better regulated, the USA had been better governed and not been engaged in unnecessary wars I doubt we would have been having this conversation today.

Capitalism or the market driven economy is still viable, but unregulated market coupled with a bad Government spells disaster.

[jah_yout]

Re: ..did Capitalism fail?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sinco01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">look at it this way .. &quot;partners in crime&quot; are the masters
&quot;they&quot; control the &quot;workers&quot;

the new slaves .. ???

</div></div>

definitely...you don't have to be a communist to know that the big boys been lining their pockets at the expense of the little man for years...
and somehow they thought it would never catch up?
in the end it is only the workers who feel it...big bwoy dem already have their stock options &amp; windfalls

[Tuff Gong]

Re: ..did Capitalism fail?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...big bwoy dem already have their stock options &amp; windfalls </div></div>....stock, options and windfalls <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">will fall </span>in this market!

[RichD]

Re: ..did Capitalism fail?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...big bwoy dem already have their stock options &amp; windfalls </div></div>....stock, options and windfalls <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">will fall </span>in this market! </div></div>i friend of mine used to work at Nortel ..i remember back in the day when the stock was high flying (over $100) they got options at $80 ..today the stock is worth 80 cents ...they will have to wait along time to cash those options

[RichD]

Re: ..did Capitalism fail?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: xKs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">your thoughts..
</div></div>

no i dont thinkit has failed ..it hink it has achieved its stated objective with the concentration of capital...so now that that has been achieved time for sumtin new.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: ..did Capitalism fail?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...big bwoy dem already have their stock options &amp; windfalls </div></div>....stock, options and windfalls <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">will fall </span>in this market! </div></div>i friend of mine used to work at Nortel ..i remember back in the day when the stock was high flying (over $100) they got options at $80 ..today the stock is worth 80 cents ...they will have to wait along time to cash those options </div></div>I am not laughing but it is real!

[Tuff Gong]

Re: ..did Capitalism fail?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: xKs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">your thoughts..
</div></div>

no i dont thinkit has failed ..it hink it has achieved its stated objective with the concentration of capital...so now that that has been achieved time for sumtin new. </div></div>.... something New?
By the time Marx saw Capitalism in operation in France he had concluded that it was on it way to reaching its objectives. One of the often most false arguments is that Marx wanted to destroy Capitalism and replace it with Socialism.
Marx was a great admirer of Capitalism and concluded wrongly that Socialism would be the natural outcome when all the economies of Europe were built up to the point of sustainability driven by Capitalism.

I personally do not see the end of Capitalism. 2/3 of the world's output is consumed in the USA, a good portion of it is produced in the USA but most other countries are built around exports to the USA market and very little to support their own consumption.
One of the major reasons that when the USA market fail so dramatically it pulls the world down with it.

Each Country will have to do more to produce the means of their subsistence, which Marx noted was the fundamental reason for human existence. The Dependence of a few countries to produce and consume the bulk of the output of a few will continue to put the whole world in jeopardy.

[RichD]

Re: ..did Capitalism fail?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Marx was a great admirer of Capitalism and concluded wrongly that Socialism would be the natural outcome when all the economies of Europe were built up to the point of sustainability driven by Capitalism.</div></div>

wrongly? isnt that to some degree what has occurred in europe? and maybe what we see occurring in NA?

[sagal]

Re: ..did Capitalism fail?

I'm wondering how Cuba's economy is doing????