Race & Ethinic Relations: the UK & Europe vs North America

**neutral** · 03-14-2009, 09:31 PM

Re: Race & Ethinic Relations: the UK & Europe vs North America

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Serenity82</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">"From what I hear in the UK" </span>

Serenity. I thouht you were based in the UK. Maybe I am mixing you up with someone else. I do apologize for calling your name.

If you wish to continue to participate in this thread, kindly stick to the topic. Tonx. </div></div>

I'm in the US. I lived in the UK briefly and no Europe is not more tolerant than the United States believe me. There are not as many opportunities for blacks like there are here in the US.

</div></div>

With all due respect I think your assessment of the Uk and the Us is based on fantasy,and I really dont think you`ve ever been anywhere much further than your front door let alone anywhere near europe.

**neutral** · 03-14-2009, 09:41 PM

Re: Race & Ethinic Relations: the UK & Europe vs North America

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Serenity82</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I'm in a major Caribbean group here where I live and we have several members who are from the UK(Jamaican parents, born in the UK). All of them say the same thing, that all the blacks are wondering 'where are the jobs' for them because of the discrimination that occurs in the UK. How naive to think Europe is somehow 'less racist' than the US when US whites come from Europe, and here atleast blacks can make certain claims since everyone is the descendent of settlers. I lived in the UK, met and talked to many black british, there is no where near as many black professionals or as many opportunities like there are in the US. </div></div>

You do talk a lot of nonsense, unlike you I live here,and have done so for over 30 years,so I think my experiences carry more weight than you simply living here "briefly" and talking to some people,...at least here in the Uk we dont need positive discrimination to give black people a foot up the ladder,people make it on their own initiative,despite any discrimination.

I think you should stick to what you know,..whatever little that is,...you live in a fantasy world,..you should change your name to *alice*....as in alice in wonderland,you`ve never been anywhere near europe.

**Fyah** · 03-14-2009, 11:08 PM

Re: Race & Ethinic Relations: the UK & Europe vs North America

My brothers and sister who were born and still live in England have this to say about it.

1. It cannot be compared to America. Blacks there do not have the same support or drive to "change" anything.

2. Most inter-racial marriages are by people who tend to have been born and lived in the same small town and are of the same socio-economic status. They live in Milton Keynes.

3. Most white women who marry black men (Jamaicans are mostly the blacks who marry whites as most Africans tend to stick with their own) would not be the "Wall Street" types.

4. Most Black men who'd be considered professionals who marry white women are soccer players PERIOD. You do not find an equal number of successful white women marrying black men, nor white men (regardless of the profession) who are professionals marrying inter-racially.

5. Apart from a fair few, not many black women work in corporate. They are mostly independent business professionals (restaurant workers, hairdressers) or social workers, teachers and nurses, bus drivers and train operators. They do not have a balanced group in what they call the "cleaner jobs" such as banks etc.

6. Most blacks in England do not own property and are still on the "dole". Many have not gone past high school and although advanced education is fairly cheap, many do not take advantage of it.

7. In Europe, to a majority of Europeans, black people are relatively invisible, except for the few who went on vacation to the Caribbean or Africa and found themselves a young man with wash-board stomach to parade around the town square.

8. Similar to the systemic plot of Americans placing a high number of black men in jail, the British does the same, except that they also place blacks in the psychiatric hospitals in high, high numbers, which makes them essential a write-off.

Black people in England seem content with whatever they are doing and I doubt most of them are "bov-vered".

**Tropicana** · 03-15-2009, 01:01 AM

Re: Race & Ethinic Relations: the UK & Europe vs North America

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neutral</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Serenity82</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I'm in a major Caribbean group here where I live and we have several members who are from the UK(Jamaican parents, born in the UK). All of them say the same thing, that all the blacks are wondering 'where are the jobs' for them because of the discrimination that occurs in the UK. How naive to think Europe is somehow 'less racist' than the US when US whites come from Europe, and here atleast blacks can make certain claims since everyone is the descendent of settlers. I lived in the UK, met and talked to many black british, there is no where near as many black professionals or as many opportunities like there are in the US. </div></div>

You do talk a lot of nonsense, unlike you I live here,and have done so for over 30 years,so I think my experiences carry more weight than you simply living here "briefly" and talking to some people,...</div></div>

That is why I called your name. I know I can count on you to give us the "real deal". Remember I had seriously been exploring the feasibility of re-locating to London. You helped me out a LOT with information. What scared me off were the London bombings and the ticking time bomb of home grown Muslim terroism. It seems that there has been a real break down when young people who were born and raised in a society are so hostile towards it. What is your take on what went wrong.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
at least here in the Uk we dont need positive discrimination to give black people a foot up the ladder,people make it on their own initiative,despite any discrimination.

</div></div>

That's been the situation in Canada too, particularly in the private sector. People on here have spoken about a time when the public sector was hiring just about any Black person that moved (my words). I never saw that. I had long migrated to the private sector by then and it has been a tough go all the way. Yes, making it on one's own initiative is tough but at least no one can throw in your face the fact that one is an affirmative action hire. Unfortunately, I do think that quotas as imperfect as they can be will eventually be the only way to ensure a level playing field.

**Tropicana** · 03-15-2009, 01:03 AM

Re: Race & Ethinic Relations: the UK & Europe vs North America

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6. <span style="font-weight: bold">Most blacks in England do not own property and are still on the "dole". Many have not gone past high school </span> and although advanced education is fairly cheap, many do not take advantage of it.
</div></div>

Surely this could not be true. Neutral, care to comment.

**Derek** · 03-15-2009, 02:38 AM

Re: Race & Ethinic Relations: the UK & Europe vs North Amer

Britain is far more tolerant than the US. But Europe is too diverse to generalise.

A black can walk down the street late at night in Paris, but he'd better watch his back if he's in Dresden, Warsaw or Kiev.

**Derek** · 03-15-2009, 02:41 AM

Re: Race & Ethinic Relations: the UK & Europe vs North Amer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sardine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6. Most blacks in England do not own property and are still on the "dole".</div></div>

Most? Are you sure?
Most black people I know own property and very few are on the dole.

**rufian** · 03-15-2009, 03:36 AM

Re: Race & Ethinic Relations: the UK & Europe vs North Amer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As for dating.. I know when I was bare foot and invited black women out it was a feeding frenzy on their part... maybe it was me... but I never had a black ooman want to go to visit the National Gallery with me... or a cheap date.. one can rationalise it as much as you want..

I am fortunate in a number of senses I am a large fit person with knife scars across my face.. it intimigated the weak...I am middle class.. a buisness owner...and </div></div>
some how I find that foreigners never get pass the lower middle middle class

ayu a try bruck dung dis bb ya wid plenty a weight

**rufian** · 03-15-2009, 04:00 AM

Re: Race & Ethinic Relations: the UK & Europe vs North Amer

a wanda if this is serenity. anyhow. This is a very subjective issue and I doubt that anyone could talk for Europe in general.
In other words, anything anyone will say off the top is likely to say more of themselves and their own class rather than how the situation really is.
And neither can anyone generalize Africans, if anyone stick to their own it might be the East and North.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
1. It cannot be compared to America. Blacks there do not have the same support or drive to "change" anything. </div></div>
Change what?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
4. Most Black men who'd be considered professionals who marry white women are soccer players PERIOD. You do not find an equal number of successful white women marrying black men, nor white men (regardless of the profession) who are professionals marrying inter-racially.</div></div>
That is not what I had been seeing. I saw black and whites from all walks of life which was less irritating than in mainland Europe where you have mostly proletarians going with all types of blacks and foreigners. But then again where is it different? Mostly whites who can't make it with their own resort to foreigners.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
5. Apart from a fair few, not many black women work in corporate. They are mostly independent business professionals (restaurant workers, hairdressers) or social workers, teachers and nurses, bus drivers and train operators. They do not have a balanced group in what they call the "cleaner jobs" such as banks etc.</div></div>
I imagine this to be no different than in the US but only statistics could validate this probably.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
6. Most blacks in England do not own property and are still on the "dole". Many have not gone past high school and although advanced education is fairly cheap, many do not take advantage of it.</div></div>
All my uncles and aunts in England own their properties and they certainly are not the only ones
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
7. In Europe, to a majority of Europeans, black people are relatively invisible, except for the few who went on vacation to the Caribbean or Africa and found themselves a young man with wash-board stomach to parade around the town square. </div></div>
Away from the European coastal regions that was a decade ago.

**Fyah** · 03-15-2009, 07:35 AM

Re: Race & Ethinic Relations: the UK & Europe vs North Amer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sardine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6. Most blacks in England do not own property and are still on the "dole".</div></div>

Most? Are you sure?
Most black people I know own property and very few are on the dole.

</div></div>

Be careful not to confuse Social Housing with House OWNERSHIP. My uncle thought he owned his house, because he's lived there since 1961, until he was told to move as the council needed THEIR house. Be careful in your definition.

<span style="color: #990000"> Indian householders are more likely than any other ethnic group (including whites) to be owner-occupiers. Home-ownership is also common amongst the Pakistanis, while <span style="color: #000000"> very few Black African and BW mixed households are home-owners.</span> Chinese, non-British White people and Black Africans are more likely to rent from the private sector than people from other ethnic groups. This may be at least partly related to the large numbers of relatively recent immigrants within these groups.

The Survey of English Housing (SEH) suggests that 16% of Black households and 6% of Asians are on housing registers, compared with 4% of white households. Only 10% of Indian and 13% of Chinese households live in social rented housing, compared with 19% of all households (ODPM 2005). Pakistani and mixed heritage (White and Asian) households are similarly underrepresented in social sector, with the vast majority of households headed by a member of these ethnic groups being either private tenants or home-owners. Bangladeshi,<span style="color: #000000"> Black Caribbean, Black African and BW mixed groups, on the other hand, are heavily concentrated on the social sector,</span> this being this most common tenure type among all above mentioned groups (apart from the Bangladeshis, who are almost equally distributed between owner-occupation and social sector). </span>

The research finding is VERY eye-opening and in areas shocking. READ ALL ABOUT IT HERE!! UK Housing Stats

**Derek** · 03-15-2009, 07:59 AM

Re: Race & Ethinic Relations: the UK & Europe vs North Amer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sardine</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sardine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6. Most blacks in England do not own property and are still on the "dole".</div></div>

Most? Are you sure?
Most black people I know own property and very few are on the dole.

</div></div>

Be careful not to confuse Social Housing with House OWNERSHIP. My uncle thought he owned his house, because he's lived there since 1961, until he was told to move as the council needed THEIR house. Be careful in your definition. </div></div>

And you be careful of your definition of owning a house. How the F can your uncle THINK he owned his house if he didn't buy it? Did he write this?

<span style="font-style: italic">6. Most blacks in England do not own property and are still on the "dole". </span>

**Fyah** · 03-15-2009, 08:00 AM

Re: Race & Ethinic Relations: the UK & Europe vs North Amer

Tropicana, I don't really have the time now to post the texts, but you might find some of these links interesting.

An Affirmative Action policy in the UK being discussed

An interesting point

Some might feel it is not needed, but they must be living under a rock. Even the police department is being told that this must become mandatory.

**Fyah** · 03-15-2009, 08:05 AM

Re: Race & Ethinic Relations: the UK & Europe vs North Amer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sardine</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=Sardine]6. Most blacks in England do not own property and are still on the "dole".</div></div>

Most? Are you sure?
Most black people I know own property and very few are on the dole.

</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Be careful not to confuse Social Housing with House OWNERSHIP. My uncle thought he owned his house, because he's lived there since 1961, until he was told to move as the council needed THEIR house. Be careful in your definition. </div></div>

[quote]And you be careful of your definition of owning a house. How the F can your uncle THINK he owned his house if he didn't buy it? Did he write this?

<span style="font-style: italic">6. Most blacks in England do not own property and are still on the "dole". Many have not gone past high school and although advanced education is fairly cheap, many do not take advantage of it.</span> </div></div>

My uncle has since died. No doubt of depression...

I think you should be aware of the government transition of social housing to ownership. Or do you? Well he got caught up in that nonsense, as was told to me. My nephew who is a SOLICITOR worked on that case for years.

You'd be surprised to learn of the experiences encountered by the immigrants to the United Kingdom, at that time. Many were told lies about their situations, mostly due to lack of education and their ignorance of the ways of whites folks back then. If you would CALMLY speak with your extended family there, you would be surprised about what you could discover. Trust me!

But why even go there? Just use your computer to discover for yourself. Just remember to STAY CALM...keep an open mind and you too can make a difference!

**Derek** · 03-15-2009, 08:11 AM

Re: Race & Ethinic Relations: the UK & Europe vs North Amer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sardine</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sardine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Originally posted by Derek

Originally posted by Sardine

6. Most blacks in England do not own property and are still on the "dole".</div></div>

Most? Are you sure?
Most black people I know own property and very few are on the dole.

</div></div>

Be careful not to confuse Social Housing with House OWNERSHIP. My uncle thought he owned his house, because he's lived there since 1961, until he was told to move as the council needed THEIR house. Be careful in your definition. </div></div>

And you be careful of your definition of owning a house. How the F can your uncle THINK he owned his house if he didn't buy it? Did he write this?

<span style="font-style: italic">6. Most blacks in England do not own property and are still on the "dole". Many have not gone past high school and although advanced education is fairly cheap, many do not take advantage of it.</span>

You'd be surprised to learn of the experiences encountered by the immigrants to the United Kingdom, at that time. Many were told lies about their situations, mostly due to lack of education and their ignorance of the ways of whites folks back then. If you would CALMLY speak with your extended family there, you would be surprised about what you could discover. Trust me!

But why even go there? Just use your computer to discover for yourself. Just remember to STAY CALM...keep an open mind and you too can make a difference!

My parents came over in the sixties and 'encountered many experiences'. You said MOST blacks don't own property. I said I know many blacks who do. So why are you telling me to be careful not to confuse Social Housing with ownership? I know the difference, but it appears your sad uncle didn't.

**Fyah** · 03-15-2009, 08:17 AM

Re: Race & Ethinic Relations: the UK & Europe vs North Amer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My parents came over in the sixties and 'encountered many experiences'. You said MOST blacks don't own property. I said I know many blacks who do. So why are you telling me to be careful not to confuse Social Housing with ownership? I know the difference, but <span style="font-weight: bold">it appears your sad uncle didn't.</span> </div></div>

Fair point! But I am sure you know people in YOUR family (especially in England) who aren't well versed on every topic and can be easily FOOLED as well, don't you?

My uncle's children thought that the agreement he reached with the council equated ownership as well, which is why I said BE CAREFUL, meaning don't speak too soon, before proof. You of course are ADVANCED and that could NEVER happen to you in your MOTHER COUNTRY.

From my understanding, social housing is a form of the "dole". Is that correct? If so, then the reasearch found on the WWW, supports the usage of the word MOST. It is possible that the MANY you know were not polled.

Race & Ethinic Relations: the UK & Europe vs North America

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

ads