Malcolm X: The House Negro vs The Field Negro (Plus Sellouts

[Emperah]

Re: House Negro vs Field Negro

mi nuh kno bout jealousy.
when ever the field negroes wanted to revolt it was the house knee-gro that would tell master about the plan.

If master was sick, the house knee-gro would say "we sick massah"
The house knee-gro got good treatment so he wanted to protect the status he believed he had.

He is the original boot licker just like de cyaas-yeye man up suh.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: House Negro vs Field Negro

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skelly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">dat dere is an uncle tom no doubt....

but anyways...i think the term house negro is one born out of jealousy! </div></div>

I think you need to look into the good Uncle Tom which is even more malinged than a House Slave.

[neutral]

Re: Malcolm X: The House Negro vs The Field Negro (Plus Sellouts

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> There may have been some house slaves and free blacks who did not sell out their people. In fact, the whole underground railway system couldn't have happened without them but there were many sellouts, traitors, collaborators, and slaves who would watch and peep and go report to massa. </div></div>

But isnt also true that african slaves came from different parts of africa with different cultures,different belief systems,and totally different sociological norms.
It would appear that even in captivity they still couldnt get their act together to unite,and to an extent that kind of mentality still prevails amongst black people.

When some black people accuse other black people of being a &quot;sellout&quot; they presume that there should be some kind of unity based on colour,therefore shared values,but it`s impossible for all black people to have shared values based simply on colour,... humans seldom work that way,we survive in the best way we know,and everyone`s experience is different,and everyone`s path is different,...you live and you die,and the in-betweens are determined by individual choices,...regardless of what colour you are,or where you live.

Personally I think that the same black people who label other black people as &quot;sellouts&quot; dont give a crap about black people,its got nothing to do with race,or colour,....they only care for themselves,...what they are actually saying is that &quot; you are successful at what you are doing,and I am not,and I disapprove of your methods for getting successful,I wish I was in your position but you didnt help me&quot;.

One thing you will never see is a successful black person labeling another successful black person a &quot;sellout&quot;,....and therein lies the rub.


Edited to add,.....this is what mgee said in her thread on black women,which I think could also apply to both sexes..

<span style="font-weight: bold">i mean,who are we, really? normally, i'd say that we are like any other group of people - varied in our behaviour and philosophies, but it look as if at some basic level we are lumped together and discussed and treated as if we are one</span>

[britisha]

Re: House Negro vs Field Negro

When Field Negro torched Massa's house, Sell Out House Negro ran to Massa and said: &quot;Massa Massa <span style="font-weight: bold">our </span>house is burning down..&quot;

[neutral]

Re: House Negro vs Field Negro

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When Field Negro torched Massa's house, Sell Out House Negro ran to Massa and said: &quot;Massa Massa <span style="font-weight: bold">our </span>house is burning down..&quot;

</div></div>

Lol !...so what was sellout negro supposed to do,he was now homeless through the irresponsible act of field negro, who I imagined was happy living in the fields,and probably had nothing better to do on a saturday night than torching massa`s house.

[britisha]

Re: House Negro vs Field Negro

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neutral</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When Field Negro torched Massa's house, Sell Out House Negro ran to Massa and said: &quot;Massa Massa <span style="font-weight: bold">our </span>house is burning down..&quot;

</div></div>

Lol !...so what was sellout negro supposed to do,he was now homeless through the irresponsible act of field negro, who I imagined was happy living in the fields,and probably had nothing better to do on a saturday night than torching massa`s house. </div></div>

(Read it in assigned reading years ago.)

Excellent analysis...he could see NO further than his nose. He was too mentally chained to dare imagine that one day he could be free of the mental and physical chains that bound him; and most likely did view the act as &quot;irresponsible&quot; LOL......I heard that the house Negros were so self-hating that they would even DIE for Massa, give up their lives for him just to prove how much more important his oppressors were than they were..[maybe they were being re-Christianized then or the earlier version of the Stockholm syndrome was occurring]

If Massa was sad, it was &quot;Massa <span style="font-weight: bold">we</span> IS sad. Why? Was it something *I* said? Took full leave of himself and feeling the Master's guilt for him...

<span style="font-style: italic">**shakking mi head and exiting at great speed</span>

[Tropicana]

Re: House Negro vs Field Negro

We are on the same schedule Britisha. If you check my Malcolm X House Negro thread, you'll find the full text of his speech from which you are quoting.

[Tropicana]

Re: Malcolm X: The House Negro vs The Field Negro (Plus Sellouts

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When some black people accuse other black people of being a &quot;sellout&quot; they presume that there should be some kind of unity based on colour,therefore shared values,but it`s impossible for all black people to have shared values based simply on colour,... humans seldom work that way,we survive in the best way we know,and everyone`s experience is different,and everyone`s path is different,...you live and you die,and the in-betweens are determined by individual choices,...regardless of what colour you are,or where you live.

Personally I think that the same black people who label other black people as &quot;sellouts&quot; dont give a crap about black people,its got nothing to do with race,or colour,....they only care for themselves,...what they are actually saying is that &quot; you are successful at what you are doing,and I am not,and I disapprove of your methods for getting successful,I wish I was in your position but you didnt help me&quot;.

One thing you will never see is a successful black person labeling another successful black person a &quot;sellout&quot;,....and therein lies the rub.
</div></div>

Disagree. There is an appropriate use for the term sellout and an inappropriate use. Some ARE sellouts making excuses for White people's racism, ignoring other Black people, not supporting one another. The term is inappropriately used in a lot of schools, for example, to mock and pick on the Black kids who are doing well. This in really unfortunate.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="font-weight: bold">i mean,who are we, really? normally, i'd say that we are like any other group of people - varied in our behaviour and philosophies, but it look as if at some basic level we are lumped together and discussed and treated as if we are one </span> </div></div>

We all face the contraints of racism and only when we take a leaf out of the pages of other groups will we discover that there is strength in unity will we progress.

[britisha]

Re: Malcolm X: The House Negro vs The Field Negro (Plus Sellouts

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..


Every one sells out if faced with a knife agaist theri testicles or at the throat of their children.... violence is an amazing persuader.</div></div>

But dear Wahalla, that IS NOT what sell out means...Sellouts function without any threat of violence...there is a difference....more like JUDAS ISCARIOT..a classic sellout<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Being brave and condeming the actions of the past to sellouts is resible... .. I gaurantee that the blondest ooman rascist would sell out if hungry enough for a single sausage.. do you think the pretty slave girls were all physically raped or went to the bed fo massa for a better meal....</div></div>


This is far-fetched and even an insult to slave women...what better meal? Are you saying that the physical demands ie for food, can be given priority over the spiritual/emotional? When they knew that they will still be in bondage, what solace can a meal offer? Come on man, what is this????? <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> did Jefferson rape whats ar face physically ??? Did washington rape his wifes sister who was his wifes aunt ??? Were willing bed fellows a sellout ????</div></div>

WALLIE !!!!!!!!!


How do you know that they bedded these CRIMINALS willingly? As a BLACK woman; and a descendant of slaves, I feel very insulted...and moreover, this doesn't have anything to do with the topic..<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

As for the house slave does it strike any one that it was in the interest of the slave master to use the more inteligent as book keepers, hunts men, and rangers.. that is one reason why most slave rebellion came out the great house..</div></div>

More intelligent, or weaker,or more subservient..more willing to die for Massa, than to burn his g-damn house down?<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

It was annie palmers lover that killed her and burnt the house.. not a feild slave....</div></div>

What difference does THAT really make...the witch is dead; and so are my fore-parents who died during slavery..

[britisha]

Re: House Negro vs Field Negro

Tropi, I am guilty of NOT reading every post...especially if they are long. Funny enough, that just flew into my head, after reading the last few posts.

Went back and took a look...oh yeah!! The memory is still up there...

[johnnycakes]

Re: Malcolm X: The House Negro vs The Field Negro (Plus Sell

When some black people accuse other black people of being a &quot;sellout&quot; they presume that there should be some kind of unity based on colour,therefore shared values,but it`s impossible for all black people to have shared values based simply on colour,... humans seldom work that way,we survive in the best way we know,and everyone`s experience is different,and everyone`s path is different,...you live and you die,and the in-betweens are determined by individual choices,...regardless of what colour you are,or where you live.

Personally I think that the same black people who label other black people as &quot;sellouts&quot; dont give a crap about black people,its got nothing to do with race,or colour,....they only care for themselves,...what they are actually saying is that &quot; you are successful at what you are doing,and I am not,and I disapprove of your methods for getting successful,I wish I was in your position but you didnt help me&quot;.

One thing you will never see is a successful black person labeling another successful black person a &quot;sellout&quot;,....and therein lies the rub.



Neutral- I would agree and disagree with your assessment. As you said there are all sorts of (black) people and their reasons for calling out &quot;sellouts&quot; varies BUT given that blacks have such a long history of an oppression that continues to this day, that calling out of &quot;sellouts&quot; and &quot;house negroes&quot; (to euphemize for those offended by the historically term) remains as valid today (Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice) as it was in the 1800's or in Malcolm X's heyday.


As an aside, we all should give some thought to calling Malcolm X by the name he adopted after leaving the Nation of Islam and becoming a traditional Muslim-El haj Malik el Shabazz.

Malik el Shabazz was, like many can be, a bit too painfully truthful for those who have adopted a bit too much of the &quot;house negro&quot; attitude, who feel shame at becoming part of the system, part of the ongoing problem.

Lastly a question for those who have called me a racist:

Can I now assume that using the term &quot;house 'negro' &quot; is now acceptable for me to use or do I have to be black to avoid being thought a racist when use it to describe racial sellouts such as Powell and Rice?

[Seveen]

Re: Malcolm X: The House Negro vs The Field Negro (Plus Sell

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When some black people accuse other black people of being a &quot;sellout&quot; they presume that there should be some kind of unity based on colour,therefore shared values,but it`s impossible for all black people to have shared values based simply on colour,... humans seldom work that way,we survive in the best way we know,and everyone`s experience is different,and everyone`s path is different,...you live and you die,and the in-betweens are determined by individual choices,...regardless of what colour you are,or where you live.

Personally I think that the same black people who label other black people as &quot;sellouts&quot; dont give a crap about black people,its got nothing to do with race,or colour,....they only care for themselves,...what they are actually saying is that &quot; you are successful at what you are doing,and I am not,and I disapprove of your methods for getting successful,I wish I was in your position but you didnt help me&quot;.

One thing you will never see is a successful black person labeling another successful black person a &quot;sellout&quot;,....and therein lies the rub.



Neutral- I would agree and disagree with your assessment. As you said there are all sorts of (black) people and their reasons for calling out &quot;sellouts&quot; varies BUT given that blacks have such a long history of an oppression that continues to this day, that calling out of &quot;sellouts&quot; and &quot;house negroes&quot; (to euphemize for those offended by the historically term) remains as valid today (Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice) as it was in the 1800's or in Malcolm X's heyday.


As an aside, we all should give some thought to calling Malcolm X by the name he adopted after leaving the Nation of Islam and becoming a traditional Muslim-El haj Malik el Shabazz.

Malik el Shabazz was, like many can be, a bit too painfully truthful for those who have adopted a bit too much of the &quot;house negro&quot; attitude, who feel shame at becoming part of the system, part of the ongoing problem.

Lastly a question for those who have called me a racist:

Can I now assume that using the term &quot;house 'negro' &quot; is now acceptable for me to use or do I have to be black to avoid being thought a racist when use it to describe racial sellouts such as Powell and Rice? </div></div>


ha! BOAL!

trop - keep putting YOUR dirty laundry on the line

[julie*mango]

Re: Malcolm X: The House Negro vs The Field Negro (Plus Sell

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
One thing you will never see is a successful black person labeling another successful black person a &quot;sellout&quot;,....and therein lies the rub.</div></div>

precisely....

which equates to what I was saying earlier that the malignment of the house negro was born out of jealousy...

[Tropicana]

Re: Malcolm X: The House Negro vs The Field Negro (Plus Sellouts

I am not surprised that many on here are rejecting the notion of House Negros and sellouts. I know that when I was living in the USA, that is how some of the Jamaicans and other West Indians were perceived by some of the Black Americans students. The feeling was that they were identifying with Whites more than Black Americans. Now I didn't agree with this assessment but I did see some evidence of that. (This was true of SOME Jamaicans and West Indian students, not all.) It's interesting, when we had West Indian Students' Association parties, I noticed that a lot of West Indies and White Americans showed up and relatively few Black Americans. This bugged the HECK out of me. I made sure to always invite Black Americans.

This writer shares Walhalla's view and disagrees with Malcolm X (sorry his Arabic name is too hard for me to get my name around. His ancestors weren't Arabs so I don't see how calling him by that name advances anything, plus at least when we say Malcolm X, everybody knows who we're talking about). I am posting this for reference only, NOT because I agree with it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If our failure to see the plantation from the vantage point of the slave quarters has led us to substitute abstractions for research on the slave family, so has it saddled us with unsubstantiated and erroneous ideas on house slaves. According to the legend, house slaves were the Uncle. Toms of the system—a privileged caste apart, contemptuous of the field hands, jealous of their place in the affection or at least attention of the white master and mistress, and generally sellouts, &quot;white man's niggers.&quot; Like most stereotypes this one has its kernel of truth; there were indeed many house slaves who fit the description. But in 1860 roughly half the slaves in the South lived on farms of twenty or fewer slaves; another 25 percent lived on plantations of between twenty and fifty slaves. Only 25 percent, in other words, lived on plantations of fifty or more, and of these, the majority lived on units of fewer than 100—that is, on units of fewer than twenty slave families. In short, the typical house slave worked either on a small farm or, at best, on a moderate-sized plantation. Only a few lived and worked on plantations large enough to permit the formation of a separate group of house slaves—of enough house slaves to form a caste unto themselves. </div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The idea of the fancy-dressed, uppity, self-inflated house slave who despised the field blacks and identified with the whites derives from those who lived in the towns and cities like Charleston, New Orleans, Natchez, and Richmond. These town house slaves and a small group of privileged house slaves on huge plantations could and sometimes did form a separate caste having the qualities attributed to them by the literature. Certainly the big planters and their families, who left most of the white family records that have been the major source, would likely have remembered precisely these slaves. Even these blacks deserve a more careful look than they have received, for they were much more complicated people than we have been led to believe. The important point, however, is that the typical house slave was far removed from this condition. He, or more likely she, worked with perhaps one to three or four others on an estate too small to permit any such caste formation.</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

If the typical house slave was an Uncle Tom and a spoiled child of the whites, then we need to be told just why so many of them turn up in the records of runaways. There is abundant evidence from the war years. We hear much about the faithful retainers who held the Yankees off from the Big House, or protected young missus, or hid the family silver. Such types were not at all rare. But they do not appear to have been nearly so numerous as those house slaves who joined the field slaves in fleeing to the Yankee lines when the opportunity arose. </div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The best sources on this point are the letters and diaries of the planters themselves who were shocked at the defection of their favorite slaves. From a vast body of published and unpublished writing by Southern whites on their war experience we learn that they could readily understand the defection of the field hands, whom they considered stupid and easily led, but were unable to account for the flight—with expressions sometimes of regret and sometimes of anger and hatred—of their house slaves. They had always thought that they knew these blacks, loved them, were loved by them; and they considered them part of the family. One day they learned that they had been deceiving themselves, that they had been living intimately with people they did not know at all. The house slaves, when the opportunity presented itself, responded with the same range of behavior as did the field slaves: they proved themselves to be just as often rebellious and independent as docile and loyal.
</div></div>

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/10731

[Tuff Gong]

Re: House Negro vs Field Negro

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When Field Negro torched Massa's house, Sell Out House Negro ran to Massa and said: &quot;Massa Massa <span style="font-weight: bold">our </span>house is burning down..&quot;

</div></div>First define Sellout Negro? <span style="font-style: italic">(BTW I am using Slave instead of Negro because I am trying to separate Slavery from the Negro in the Civil Right Era, which is what I contend that Malcolm was talking about, even though he might have reached forward to Slavery for his point of reference.)</span>. Would you say a Slave working in the House is always a sell out and a slave working in the Field is always ready to stay true to cause?