A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

[Dyoll_73]

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: barosa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With well armed dons in political garrisons, Jamaica cannot afford to let our guard down especially in Kingston... Keep them close to the trouble &quot;Hotspots&quot;... </div></div>

This is something an efficient police force can do. What does it say about the quality of our police apparatus if we have to maintain a military to deal with what should be within police jurisdiction in the first place?

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&quot;Now a dont know if anyone here has sufficient knowledge of JDF and its operations to speak from a point of knowledge.. we all just assuming here and chatting wi fawt based off wi limited knowlegde.&quot;

but stop... Is a given dat yaadies chat bout any n evryting based on wi limited knowledge... Dat is wat we famous fah .. We run tings etc is our mantra to prove o
how serious we r wid our right to discuss n discuss as if it being considered ad policy </div></div> X have military experience. He knows what he is talking about as far as counter attack onJamaica.s part.

[barosa]

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: barosa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With well armed dons in political garrisons, Jamaica cannot afford to let our guard down especially in Kingston... Keep them close to the trouble &quot;Hotspots&quot;... </div></div>

This is something an efficient police force can do. What does it say about the quality of our police apparatus if we have to maintain a military to deal with what should be within police jurisdiction in the first place? </div></div>
Why haven't the JCF been able to handle past unrest and violent situations without the assistance of the JDF. Your argument does not hold up too well under scrutinity. In many instances, it was the JDF boys who held sway in calming many a situations...
_________________________

&quot;What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight - it's the size of the fight in the dog.&quot; - Dwight Eisenhower

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: barosa</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the past, on this very forum, I've argued that every role the JDF currently serves could be assumed by other branches of law enforcement and certain statutory bodies. But the 'nostalgists' for lack of a better word, and the so-called realists offered up rationales which mainly went along the lines of keeping some secondary line of defense. I'm sure if Bahamas attacked up, we would kick their butts, not to mention those Bajans.

Until such time that the JDF as a body is dissolved, I'm for relocating it. </div></div>
I find it interesting that some of us &quot;advocates&quot; who are for keeping the JDF where they are and has always been, are viewed as &quot;nostalgists&quot;(if the word exist). Jamaica has never had to defend her shores because as a member of the Empire, That job was primarily that of the British and even then, they relied on our local back up forces, known then as the &quot;Jamaica Battalion&quot;.. With Independence, the name was changed to the JDF(Jamaica Defence Force). They have never been called upon to &quot;defend&quot; the island from any external adversary and thank God for that. ~ I shudder to think what would the conditions be like today, without &quot;their auxiliary&quot; services to the JCF during the many unrests and disturbances we have had in the past...

It's funny that you believe that if the Bahamas or Barbados messes with us, we could kick their butts. I'm wondering which of the forces available to us, we would call on to do the neccessary KICKING... The JDF needs to be equipt with modern armaments at a minimum level to sufficiently protect Jamaica and its environs... With well armed dons in political garrisons, Jamaica cannot afford to let our guard down especially in Kingston... Keep them close to the trouble &quot;Hotspots&quot;, it's a small price to pay...
____________________________

&quot;What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight - it's the size of the fight in the dog.&quot; - Dwight Eisenhower

</div></div> it was much bigger than a battalion the. It waas the Jamaican Regiment which was made up of quite a few batallions. Priot times we had the then West India regiment of whing Jamaica was a part.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: barosa</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: barosa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With well armed dons in political garrisons, Jamaica cannot afford to let our guard down especially in Kingston... Keep them close to the trouble &quot;Hotspots&quot;... </div></div>

This is something an efficient police force can do. What does it say about the quality of our police apparatus if we have to maintain a military to deal with what should be within police jurisdiction in the first place? </div></div>
Why haven't the JCF been able to handle past unrest and violent situations without the assistance of the JDF. Your argument does not hold up too well under scrutinity. In many instances, it was the JDF boys who held sway in calming many a situations...
_________________________

&quot;What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight - it's the size of the fight in the dog.&quot; - Dwight Eisenhower </div></div>Humano only have his personal idea of huw thse thinhs wiork. which is way off base.

[evanovitch]

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&quot;Now a dont know if anyone here has sufficient knowledge of JDF and its operations to speak from a point of knowledge.. we all just assuming here and chatting wi fawt based off wi limited knowlegde.&quot;

but stop... Is a given dat yaadies chat bout any n evryting based on wi limited knowledge... Dat is wat we famous fah .. We run tings etc is our mantra to prove o
how serious we r wid our right to discuss n discuss as if it being considered ad policy </div></div> X have military experience. He knows what he is talking about as far as counter attack onJamaica.s part. </div></div>

it not all dat serious boo...no ? being asked fi get ansa...juss a seh dat yaadie chat bout any an everyting..dat is why di Star was to be bought an brought into di bar fi di end a day discussion of all widdin

[Tuff Gong]

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[font:Arial Black]This is something an efficient Riot Police could easily handle. This can't be our best argument for keeping the JDF headquarters there. </div></div>It would not take the form of a riot and no history has proven that we most certainly do not have an efficient riot police.
Unfortunately that is my best argument for keeping it there.

[Dyoll_73]

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: barosa</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: barosa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With well armed dons in political garrisons, Jamaica cannot afford to let our guard down especially in Kingston... Keep them close to the trouble &quot;Hotspots&quot;... </div></div>

This is something an efficient police force can do. What does it say about the quality of our police apparatus if we have to maintain a military to deal with what should be within police jurisdiction in the first place? </div></div>
Why haven't the JCF been able to handle past unrest and violent situations without the assistance of the JDF. Your argument does not hold up too well under scrutinity. In many instances, it was the JDF boys who held sway in calming many a situations...</div></div>

With all due respect, Barosa, I think it is your arguments that don't hold up. I ask you again: What does it say about the quality of our police apparatus if we have to maintain a military to deal with what should be within police jurisdiction in the first place?

[Dyoll_73]

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Humano only have his personal idea of huw thse thinhs wiork. which is way off base. </div></div>

I kmnow morea bout thwese thimngs than yiou think.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Humano only have his personal idea of huw thse thinhs wiork. which is way off base. </div></div>

I kmnow morea bout thwese thimngs than yiou think. </div></div>

LOL!

Tell me something if our Fine Military is so important why is their Barracks so ramshackle?
The current GOJ under Bruce Gelding is weak and spends more time looking over its shoulders than making good decisions.
If the GOJ thinks that is can keep an expensive boutique Military and weak, ineffective Police Force it is making a sad mistake.
It is better do the only thing that will save real cash right now...<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">get rid of the Army and its various Installations.</span>

[Dyoll_73]

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Humano only have his personal idea of huw thse thinhs wiork. which is way off base. </div></div>

I kmnow morea bout thwese thimngs than yiou think. </div></div>

LOL!

Tell me something if our Fine Military is so important why is their Barracks so ramshackle?
The current GOJ under Bruce Gelding is weak and spends more time looking over its shoulders than making good decisions.
If the GOJ thinks that is can keep an expensive boutique Military and weak, ineffective Police Force it is making a sad mistake.
It is better do the only thing that will save real cash right now...<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">get rid of the Army and its various Installations.</span> </div></div>

See, I'm yet to hear a well-reasoned argument as to why we shouldn't abolish the JDF.

[jah_yout]

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Humano only have his personal idea of huw thse thinhs wiork. which is way off base. </div></div>

I kmnow morea bout thwese thimngs than yiou think. </div></div>

LOL!

Tell me something if our Fine Military is so important why is their Barracks so ramshackle?
The current GOJ under Bruce Gelding is weak and spends more time looking over its shoulders than making good decisions.
If the GOJ thinks that is can keep an expensive boutique Military and weak, ineffective Police Force it is making a sad mistake.
It is better do the only thing that will save real cash right now...<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">get rid of the Army and its various Installations.</span> </div></div>

See, I'm yet to hear a well-reasoned argument as to why we shouldn't abolish the JDF.

ok- say you abolish the jdf;
do you think jamaica would need any type of defense force? if so waht type? just the police?
i take it you don't forsee any need for a defense force ever arising in the future?
or should that just be a bridge they cross if/when/ever they get to it?

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=Humano]

Humano only have his personal idea of huw thse thinhs wiork. which is way off base. </div></div>

I kmnow morea bout thwese thimngs than yiou think. </div></div>

LOL!

Tell me something if our Fine Military is so important why is their Barracks so ramshackle?
The current GOJ under Bruce Gelding is weak and spends more time looking over its shoulders than making good decisions.
If the GOJ thinks that is can keep an expensive boutique Military and weak, ineffective Police Force it is making a sad mistake.
It is better do the only thing that will save real cash right now...<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">get rid of the Army and its various Installations.</span> </div></div>

See, I'm yet to hear a wel-reasoned argument as to why we shouldn't abolish the JDF.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

ok- say you abolish the jdf;
do you think jamaica would need any type of defense force? if so waht type? just the police?
i take it you don't forsee any need for a defense force ever arising in the future?
or should that just be a bridge they cross if/when/ever they get to it? </div></div>Only fools leave their defence to others, and biggr fools put all ther security in any one source. any single force incharge and th edefacto rulers of that country. who could fire the head of the police force if they are th eonly armed force and decide otherwise?

[barosa]

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Humano only have his personal idea of huw thse thinhs wiork. which is way off base. </div></div>

I kmnow morea bout thwese thimngs than yiou think. </div></div>

LOL!

Tell me something if our Fine Military is so important why is their Barracks so ramshackle?
The current GOJ under Bruce Gelding is weak and spends more time looking over its shoulders than making good decisions.
If the GOJ thinks that is can keep an expensive boutique Military and weak, ineffective Police Force it is making a sad mistake.
It is better do the only thing that will save real cash right now...<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">get rid of the Army and its various Installations.</span> </div></div>
Re the &quot;ramshackle&quot; condition of Harmon Barracks etc, has more to do with our govt than how important the military really is. It is a sad reflection on our governments and their priorities since &quot;Independence&quot; when the British turned over the running of our affairs to us... I will bet my last dollar that if the Brits were still in charge, the situation would be in keeping with having modern army well equipt and ready for any eventuality. I can assure you that the British, with all their faults knows how important a good well trained military is...

I will say that your idea of getting rid of the military is shortsighted and imo would be an invitation at worst, to any other banana republic to invade us or at best to encourage an insurrection that could lead to a civil war or possible overthrow of our govt... I know that some will say, none of this is likely to happen and we dont really need a military, so save the money and rely on the corrupt and inefficient &quot;QUASI&quot; military JCF. ~ <span style="font-weight: bold">Jamaica would become the &quot;laughing stock&quot; of not only the Caribbean but the entire world...</span>
____________________________

&quot;What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight - it's the size of the fight in the dog.&quot; - Dwight Eisenhower

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: barosa</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Humano only have his personal idea of huw thse thinhs wiork. which is way off base. </div></div>

I kmnow morea bout thwese thimngs than yiou think. </div></div>

LOL!

Tell me something if our Fine Military is so important why is their Barracks so ramshackle?
The current GOJ under Bruce Gelding is weak and spends more time looking over its shoulders than making good decisions.
If the GOJ thinks that is can keep an expensive boutique Military and weak, ineffective Police Force it is making a sad mistake.
It is better do the only thing that will save real cash right now...<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">get rid of the Army and its various Installations.</span> </div></div>
Re the &quot;ramshackle&quot; condition of Harmon Barracks etc, has more to do with our govt than how important the military really is. It is a sad reflection on our governments and their priorities since &quot;Independence&quot; when the British turned over the running of our affairs to us... I will bet my last dollar that if the Brits were still in charge, the situation would be in keeping with ha ving modern army well equipt and ready for any eventuality. I can assure you that the British, with all their faults knows how important a good well trained military is...

I will say that your idea of getting rid of the military is shortsighted and imo would be an invitation at worst, to any other banana republic to invade us or at best to encourage an insurrection that could lead to a civil war or possible overthrow of our govt... I know that some will say, none of this is likely to happen and we dont really need a military, so save the money and rely on the corrupt and inefficient &quot;QUASI&quot; military JCF. ~ <span style="font-weight: bold">Jamaica would become the &quot;laughing stock&quot; of not only the Caribbean but the entire world...</span>
____________________________

&quot;What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight - it's the size of the fight in the dog.&quot; - Dwight Eisenhower

The Brits with all their faults would havepaid leconomic rates for the products, but wouldhave maintained the military tosecure themeslves andther prtofist. But would never do anything for thecountry at large. Did Kigston or any other municipalty have a sewer system while the Brits was incharge?
And Harmon barracks is niot a military bassacks,it is a police facillity.