New: One more time - should ganja be legalized?

[Fancy DatdamnDiva]

Briefly my reasons for opposing legalization are:

1. No proven medical benefits - I will post research to show that.
2. Definitely not everyone can handle it and it can trigger latent psychoses in some individuals. At UHWI, every year students end up in psychiatry after messing around with it. I have observed this personally.

3. Legalization of ganja will ensure that Jamaican tourism attracts undesirable elements. We can do without that type of tourist....is the word riff-raff too strong. Look at the experience of The Netherlands for a taste of things to come.
4. Ganja makes users really passive and lethargic...hardly what we need to build a stable and productive nation in Jamaica and healthy communities abroad.
5. Legalization of ganja in Jamaica will for sure attract organized crime elements to the island. We have enough problems of our own.
6. Legalization of ganja in Jamaica if it is not legal in the US will bring major heat on Jamaica and its citizens from the USA. Again, we have no problems we don't need it.

MyLooh, above are her reasons. so since she didnt specifically say "ganaja kills ppl" she feels anyone who says anything along the lines of how all those other things can kill ppl and are legal and ganja doesnt and is illegal then she feels it doesnt need to be addressed only b/c it's not in her argument as to why ganja shouldnt be legal.

The rest of wi, that are not closed minded and can understand other ppl opinion without trying to prove the next person wrong all the time can clearly see where you are coming from.

Tropi... You started this thread, not I. The name YOU gave the thread is... New: One more time - should ganja be legalized?

I am merely answering your question by pointing out that there are products that cause more people to die than ganja, YET they are sold legally. I think that should be considered when thinking about the question YOU posed. That is ALL I am saying.

I believe my response is pertinent to the question YOU asked, unless I am missing something.

If my answer to YOUR QUESTION does not meet with your approval then I am sorry YOU feel that way.

even with those who have posted research CLEARLY showing the benefits, she still refuses to acknowledge any of it. if it doesnt agree with her points or if she didnt post it herself then u fi get argument and book reports ALL DAMM DAY! insanity mi seh

[My Looh]

MyLooh, above are her reasons. so since she didnt specifically say "ganaja kills ppl" she feels anyone who says anything along the lines of how all those other things can kill ppl and are legal and ganja doesnt and is illegal then she feels it doesnt need to be addressed only b/c it's not in her argument as to why ganja shouldnt be legal.

The rest of wi, that are not closed minded and can understand other ppl opinion without trying to prove the next person wrong all the time can clearly see where you are coming from.



even with those who have posted research CLEARLY showing the benefits, she still refuses to acknowledge any of it. if it doesnt agree with her points or if she didnt post it herself then u fi get argument and book reports ALL DAMM DAY! insanity mi seh

Got it!

[My Looh]

Briefly my reasons for opposing legalization are:


5. Legalization of ganja in Jamaica will for sure attract organized crime elements to the island. We have enough problems of our own.

Didn't the mob thrive in the United States back in the 1920s once the prohibition of alcohol was introduced? Extrapolating from history, why do you believe organized crime would increase if made legal? Wouldn't the opposite be true and organize crime decrease if ganja was indeed legalized and sold as a controlled product.

[Tropicana]

Not based on the experiences of other countries.

[RichD]

Not based on the experiences of other countries.

which countries you usug as the model?

[Tropicana]

Take this for starters:



The Netherlands

The Dutch Realize That Legalizing Drugs and Prostitution Maybe Wasn’t Such a Great Idea After All



For Paul Schnabel, director of the Social and Cultural Planning Office, a government advisory board, the move reflects a growing view that the tolerance policies have not controlled the ills associated with drugs and prostitution, rather than a recasting of Dutch liberalism.


“There’s a strong tendency in Dutch society to control things by allowing them. . . . We look for better alternatives to problems that we know exist anyway,” he explained.


But, he added, “Dutch society is less willing to tolerate than before. Perhaps 30 years ago we were a more easy-going society.”


The circumstances that led to the tolerance policies have changed in the past decade, as large-scale crime around coffee shops and the legal sex trade became more visible. In particular, the absence of legal means for coffee shops to obtain cannabis has highlighted their association with organized crime.


But the open-minded instincts that helped foster the policies are also being questioned. And it is not just the far-right opposing coffee shops. The traditional parties of power on the center-right, the Christian Democrats and the Liberal VVD, have also moved against the policies they once promoted.


“The liberal consensus that helped create those policies – that’s gone now. The pragmatism has been replaced by increasingly moral politics, in a way which is reminiscent of what happened in the United States with the ‘moral majority’ in the 1980s,” said Andre Krouwel, a political scientist at the Free University in Amsterdam.

Another

Legalizing Marijuana: Some Lessons from The Netherlands



The Dutch decriminalized a long time ago. But other countries have not followed. For most Dutch people, the legalization question is not terribly salient. Marijuana usage in the Netherlands is much lower than in the U.S. Most neighborhoods are unaffected by coffee shops. Yet, there are small concentrated parts of the country where it matters a lot. Dutch policy attracts vast numbers of drug tourists. How much you will like this drug tourism depends on where you live. In a place like Amsterdam, it attracts tourists who stay for multiple days in the city and who spend money on hotels, food, tulip bulbs, wooden shoes, cheese, and so on. There is an increase in petty crime associated with legalization. Yet, in places like Amsterdam legalization also builds strong entrenched interests in favor.


In border towns like Maastricht or Enschede, it attracts cars filled with young people from France, Germany, and Belgium who smoke a few joints, wreak some havoc, load up their trunks with cannabis, and leave the city. The Dutch government has recently introduced a requirement that marijuana can only be sold to people who have some proof that they reside in the Netherlands. This requirement is enforced only in border towns. Amsterdam and other destination towns continue to resist and it seems like the new government is not going to insist.




I expect similar patterns of concentrated opposition in Washington state, especially if Oregon does not pass a similar measure (Oregon already allows medical marijuana but rejected legalization of recreational marijuana). The areas around Portland but also the Eastern parts of the state near Idaho can expect a fair bit of undesirable drug traffic. Seattle and co not so much. Indeed, it may gain in value as a destination town. You can expect similar patterns in Colorado. Although there are few high density population areas in the vicinity, you are still going to see some concentration of traffic and trouble near the major highways. Denver, Boulder, Colorado Springs and so on may pick up some popularity as destination towns.


It could be that these states (and especially the border areas) are sufficiently sparsely populated that the nuisance of drug tourism is going to be less visible and the political power of those affected less strong than in densely populated The Netherlands. Nevertheless, the Dutch experience suggests that there are some downsides to being a first mover on this front. Policy makers in other countries have pointed to increases in petty crime and localized opposition as an argument against further legalization; thus amplifying the problems for the Netherlands. It may be that the American West harmonizes more quickly but we should think about why this has not happened in Europe.

Will come with more tonight. Mi gawn

[Fancy DatdamnDiva]

which countries you usug as the model?

[Tropicana]

More:

Weed Ghettos For Tourists Anger Netherlands Neighbors


Drug tourism has always been a big issue, and a big business, in the Netherlands.




That land of “laissez-faire,” with its reputation as a haven of drug tolerance, is not only mired in internal political discord over a nationwide extension of the prohibition against “soft” drug sales to tourists but also facing serious border disputes around the development of “weed ghettos” in areas near its neighbors.


Currently, only the country’s southern provinces have implemented last year’s ban outlawing the sale of drugs to tourists by the infamous coffee shops and limited sales to government-issued “weed pass”-carrying locals.


But the law created conflict mainly with an active lobby of coffee shop owners who decided to openly defy the law, triggering month-long suspended jail sentences and fines during the summer.


The battle between coffee shop owners and Onno Hoes, mayor of Maastricht (the regional capital of the south) and a stalwart supporter of Prime Minister Mark Rutte, ended at the Supreme Court in The Hague, which last week invoked a Solomon-like compromise: Move the coffee shops from the city center to so-called “coffee corners” on the edge of town.


Three coffee shop owners agreed to relocate immediately to an industrial park near the Belgian border. However, five nearby Belgian towns weren’t amused – and the mayor of one even threatened to close roads crossing the border due to “international risk.”


“I can make all the cars returning from Maastricht undergo checks,” he told local journalists.


The national law banning foreigners from buying weed at the legal coffee shops has been widely ignored in most of the country, including Amsterdam and Rotterdam, the two largest cities whose mayors refuse to comply with the central government’s decision.


The battle’s been most intense in Maastricht, where Hoes claims that the 1.6 million foreign “drugs tourists” visiting the city’s 13 licensed coffee shops every year created “an unacceptable nuisance” and brought filth, noise and crime to the city.


The coffee shop owners argue that the ban has devastated their business, damaged the local economy and led to an increase in illegal street dealing.


A Dutch News article comparing “police and city council figures“ reports that “the decision to ban foreigners not resident in the Netherlands from the country’s cannabis cafes has led to an ‘explosion’ in drug-related crime in the south of the country. The government’s decision to turn the cafes into “members’ only clubs” in the southern provinces last May led to a sharp rise in street dealing. In Maastricht, at the forefront of efforts to reduce drug tourism, the number of drug crimes has doubled over the past year while in Roermond they are up three-fold with at least 60 active street dealers.”


According to other surveys recently published in the local Dutch press, two-thirds of the country’s 478 cannabis cafes continue to sell marijuana to tourists, creating a new and sharp north-south divide.


The ban appears to leave a loophole for a local, ‘tailor-made’ approach, permitting licensed coffee shops to continue selling small amounts of cannabis to any adult for personal use. And while possession is not legal, the police turn a blind eye to people with less than five grams.


Amsterdam’s mayor, Eberhard van der Laan, for example, has made clear that his city will not ban tourists from its 220 coffee shops because “the legislation makes it possible to take local circumstances into account.” The mayors of many other towns support and follow his position.


Although Justice Minister Ivo Opstelten declared his ministry is not yet planning to impose a deadline on city councils to implement the ban, he also warned that he will not tolerate mayors refusing to ban tourists from buying marijuana.

[Tropicana]

From USA and the Netherlands

Proponents of legalization have many theories regarding the connection between drugs and violence. Some dispute the connection between drugs and violence, claiming that drug use is a victimless crime and users are putting only themselves in harm's way and therefore have the right to use drugs. Other proponents of legalization contend that if drugs were legalized, crime and violence would decrease, believing that it is the illegal nature of drug production, trafficking, and use that fuels crime and violence, rather than the violent and irrational behavior that drugs themselves prompt.


Today, marijuana trafficking is linked to a variety of crimes, from assault and murder to money laundering and smuggling. Legalization of marijuana would increase demand for the drug and almost certainly exacerbate drug-related crime, as well as cause a myriad of unintended but predictable consequences.


Under a legalization scenario, a "black market" for drugs would still exist.

And it would be a vast "black market". If drugs were legal for those over 18 or 21, there would be a market for everyone under that age. People under the age of 21 consume the majority of illegal drugs, and so an illegal market and organized crime to supply it would remain along with the organized crime that profits from it.


After Prohibition ended, did the organized crime in our country go down? No.


It continues today in a variety of other criminal enterprises. Legalization would not put the cartels out of business; cartels would simply look to other illegal endeavors. If only marijuana were legalized, drug traffickers would continue to traffic in heroin and cocaine. In either case, traffic-related violence would not be ended by legalization.


Marijuana advocates point to the Netherlands as a well-functioning society with a relaxed attitude toward drugs, but they rarely mention that Amsterdam is one of Europe's most violent cities. In Amsterdam, officials are in the process of closing marijuana dispensaries, or "coffee shops," because of the crime associated with their operation. Furthermore, the Dutch Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport has expressed "concern about drug and alcohol use among young people and the social consequences, which range from poor school performance and truancy to serious impairment, including brain damage."


Amsterdam's experience is already being duplicated in California under the current medical marijuana statute. In Los Angeles, police report that areas surrounding cannabis clubs have experienced a:

• 200 percent increase in robberies,
• 52.2 percent increase in burglaries,
• 57.1 percent increase in aggravated assault, and
• 130.8 percent increase in burglaries from automobiles.

Current law requires a doctor's prescription to procure marijuana; full legalization would likely spark an even more acute increase in crime.


What is the relationship between crime and addiction?


Criminal acts are committed by addicts to attain their drugs of choice, not because the drug is illegal. Legalizing marijuana would not take away its addictive power or the criminal organizations who profit from its sale.

Not addictive in the sense that heroine is addictive but definitely habit forming in the same way that cigarettes are.

A study by the RAND Corporation concluded that approximately 60 percent of arrestees test positive for marijuana use in the United States, England, and Australia and that marijuana metabolites are found in arrestees' urine more frequently than those of any other drug.

When individuals are under the influence of drugs, judgement is impaired and they are more likely to enter into risky, criminal behavior.
Where to you draw the line?
If only marijuana, cocaine, and heroin were legalized, there would still be a market for PCP and methamphetamine. Where do legalizers want to draw the line? Or do they support legalizing all drugs, no matter how addictive and dangerous?
In addition, any government agency assigned to distribute drugs under a legalization scenario would, for safety purposes, most likely not distribute the most potent drug. The drugs may also be more expensive because of bureaucratic costs of operating such a distribution system. Therefore, until 100 percent pure drugs are given away to anyone, at any age, a "black market" will remain.
The greatest weakness in the logic of legalizers is that the violence associated with drugs is simply a product of drug trafficking. That is, if drugs were legal, then most drug crime would end. But most violent crime is committed not because people want to buy drugs, but because people are on drugs. Drug use changes behavior and exacerbates criminal activity, and there is ample scientific evidence that demonstrates the links between drugs, violence, and crime. Drugs often cause people to do things they wouldn't do if they were rational and free of the influence of drugs.
Six times as many homicides are committed by people under the influence of drugs as by those who are looking for money to buy drugs.

According to the 1999 Arrestee Drug Abuse Monitoring (ADAM) study, more than half of arrestees for violent crimes test positive for drugs at the time of their arrest.

[Tropicana]

Continued

For experts in the field of crime, violence, and drug abuse, there is no doubt that there is a connection between drug use and violence. As Joseph A. Califano, Jr., of the National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University stated, "Drugs like marijuana, heroin and cocaine are not dangerous because they are illegal; they are illegal because they are dangerous."There are numerous statistics, from a wide variety of sources, illustrating the connection between drugs and violence. The propensity for violence against law enforcement officers, coworkers, family members, or simply people encountered on the street by drug abusers is a matter of record.
A 1997 FBI study of violence against law enforcement officers found that 24 percent of the assailants were under the influence of drugs at the time they attacked the officers and that 72 percent of the assailants had a history of drug law violations.
Many scientific studies also support the connection between drug use and crime. One study investigated state prisoners who had five or more convictions. These are hardened criminals. It found that four out of every five of them used drugs regularly.
Numerous episodes of workplace violence have also been attributed to illegal drugs. A two-year independent postal commission study looked into 29 incidents resulting in 34 deaths of postal employees from 1986 to 1999. "Most perpetrators (20 of 34) either had a known history of substance abuse or were known to be under the influence of alcohol or illicit drugs at the time of the homicide. The number is likely higher because investigations in most other cases were inconclusive."
Drug Users 5 Times More Likely to Attack Someone.
According to the 1998 National Household Survey on Drug Abuse, teenage drug users are five times far more likely to attack someone than those who don't use drugs. About 20 percent of the 12-17 year olds reporting use of an illegal drug in the past year attacked someone with the intent to seriously hurt them, compared to 4.3 percent of the non-drug users.
As we see in most cases, the violence associated with drug use escalates and, in many instances, results in increased homicide rates. A 1994 Journal of the American Medical Association article reported that cocaine use was linked to high rates of homicide in New York City.
Drug users are not only harming themselves, but as we can see, they are harming anyone who may have the misfortune of crossing their path. Dr. Mitchell Rosenthal, head of Phoenix House, a major drug treatment center, has pointed out that, "there are a substantial number of abusers who cross the line from permissible self-destruction to become 'driven' people who are 'out of control' and put others in danger of their risk-taking, violence, abuse, or HIV infection."
Drug Use in Not a Victimless Crime.
It is impossible to claim drug use is a victimless crime or deny the relationship between drugs and violence, especially when looking at an Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP) estimate for 1995, which estimates there were almost 53,000 drug-related deaths in that year alone, compared to 58,000 American lives lost in eight and a half years in the Vietnam War. The assertions dismissing the connection between drugs and violence by legalization proponents are simply not true. Drug use, legal or not, is not a victimless crime; it is a crime that destroys communities, families, and lives.


Legalization Will Cause Drug Trafficking Organization to Grow More.
Legalize marijuana, and the demand for marijuana goes up substantially as the deterrence effect of law enforcement disappears. Yet not many suppliers will operate legally, refusing to subject themselves to the established state regulatory scheme; not to mention taxation-while still risking federal prosecution, conviction, and prison time. So who will fill the void?


Violent, brutal, and ruthless, Mexican Drug Trafficking Organizations (DTOs) will work to maintain their "black market" profits at the expense of American citizens' safety. Every week, there are news articles cataloguing the murders, kidnappings, robberies, and other thuggish brutality employed by Mexican drug gangs along the border. It is nonsensical to argue that these gangs will simply give up producing marijuana when it is legalized; indeed, their profits might soar, depending on the actual tax in California and the economics of the interstate trade. While such profits might not be possible if marijuana was legalized at the national level and these gangs were undercut by mass production, that is unlikely ever to happen. Nor does anyone really believe that the gangs will subject themselves to state and local regulation, including taxation. And since the California ballot does nothing to eliminate the "black market" for marijuana quite the opposite, in fact-legalizing marijuana will only incentivize Mexican DTOs to grow more marijuana to feed the demand and exploit the "black market".
Furthermore, should California legalize marijuana, other entrepreneurs will inevitably attempt to enter the marketplace and game the system. In doing so, they will compete with Mexican DTOs and other criminal organizations. Inevitably, violence will follow, and unlike now, that violence will not be confined to the border as large-scale growers seek to protect their turf that will necessarily include anywhere they grow, harvest, process, or sell marijuana. While this may sound far-fetched, Californians in Alameda County are already experiencing the reality of cartel-run marijuana farms on sometimes stolen land, protected by "guys [who] are pretty heavily armed and willing to protect their merchandise."
It is not uncommon for drugs with large illegal markets to be controlled by cartels despite attempts to roll them into the normal medical control scheme. As competition from growers and dispensaries authorized by the state cuts further into the Mexican DTOs' business, Californians will face a real possibility of bloodshed on their own soil as the cartels' profit protection measures turn from defensive to offensive.
Thus, marijuana legalization will increase crime, drug use, and social dislocation across the state of California; the exact opposite of what pro-legalization advocates promise.

[Tropicana]

USA


Marijuana is drug most often linked to crime, study finds

Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/05/2...#storylink=cpy

Marijuana is the drug most often linked to crime in the United States, the U.S. drug czar said Thursday, dismissing calls for legalization as a “bumper-sticker approach” that should be avoided.Gil Kerlikowske, the White House director of national drug-control policy, said a study by his office showed a strong link between drug use and crime. Eighty percent of the adult males arrested for crimes in Sacramento, Calif., last year tested positive for at least one illegal drug. Marijuana was the most commonly detected drug, found in 54 percent of those arrested.
The study found similar results in four other cities: New York, Denver, Atlanta and Chicago. Among the cities, it included examinations of 1,736 urine samples and 1,938 interviews with men who were arrested.
Researchers found that marijuana was the most popular drug used by men who’d been arrested in all the cities, ranging from a low of 37 percent in Atlanta to a high of 58 percent in Chicago. Chicago also had the highest overall positive test results, with 86 percent of the men found to have at least one drug in their bloodstreams.
Cocaine ranked as the second most commonly found drug in all the cities, with the exception of Sacramento, where methamphetamine was No. 2, detected among 40 percent of those arrested.
Saying that drugs are fueling much of the crime in the United States, Kerlikowske used the study to make a pitch for more treatment.
He said that while more than 60 percent of those arrested in the study had tested positive for at least one drug, 70 percent of the arrestees had never received any drug or alcohol treatment. As a result, he said, U.S. drug policy should be approached from a public health standpoint, not merely as a criminal justice issue.
“That means addressing those factors that contribute to drug offenses, factors that all too often include the disease of addiction,” Kerlikowske said in a speech at the Urban Institute, a public policy research center in Washington. “It means abandoning simplistic bumper-sticker approaches, such as boiling the issue down to a ‘war on drugs’ or outright legalization.”
Nancy La Vigne, the director of the Justice Policy Center for the Urban Institute, said in a statement that the high rates of drug use among those studied showed the need to back more prevention and treatment to “address the root cause of criminal involvement, and not just the symptoms.”
Backers of the growing movement to legalize marijuana were quick to criticize the study.
“The drug czar should be ashamed of himself for attempting to deceive the American people in this manner,” said Steve Fox, the national political director for the Marijuana Policy Project, a pro-legalization group in Washington. “We could release a study tomorrow showing that 98 percent of arrestees in the United States drank water in the 48 hours before they engaged in criminal behavior. Does that mean that water causes crime? Fortunately, the American people are smarter than the drug czar thinks they are.”
Kerlikowske, a former Seattle police chief, has consistently opposed legalization since he became President Barack Obama’s top drug policy adviser in 2009.
His position puts him at odds with two states, Washington and Colorado, that voted in November to legalize marijuana, a controlled substance that remains illegal under federal law. With the Obama administration doing nothing so far to try to stop them, both states are proceeding with plans to begin selling marijuana for recreational use next year.
A third state, Alaska, might follow soon, with legalization supporters aiming to get the measure on the state’s primary ballot in August of next year.
Fox, who’s expecting California and other states to vote on legalizing marijuana in 2016, said the nation’s outdated marijuana laws were turning otherwise law-abiding citizens into criminals. He had a suggestion for the drug czar: “If he wants to reduce crime in the U.S., he should join us in making marijuana legal.”
In his speech, Kerlikowske said it was time for the United States to “acknowledge and come to grips with the link between crime and substance use” and ease the burden on its criminal justice system. In 2011, he said, the country had 2.4 million people incarcerated, for the highest incarceration rate in the world: 716 people per 100,000 citizens.
Kerlikowske said that Obama’s health-care plan, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, which Congress passed in 2010, would be revolutionary for the drug policy field because for the first time it made treatment for substance-use disorders a required health benefit.
He said drug addiction “is not a moral failing, but a brain disease that can be prevented, treated, and from which people can recover.”

Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/05/2...#storylink=cpy

[Wahalla]

And this is what the amsterdam major says ...He rather encourage tourists... I wonder how much crime is associated with sex shops that occupy the same area in Amsterdam as the many coffee shops...

Amsterdam’s mayor, Eberhard van der Laan, for example, has made clear that his city will not ban tourists from its 220 coffee shops because “the legislation makes it possible to take local circumstances into account.” The mayors of many other towns support and follow his position.

The battle’s been most intense in Maastricht, where Hoes claims that the 1.6 million foreign “drugs tourists” visiting the city’s 13 licensed coffee shops every year created “an unacceptable nuisance” and brought filth, noise and crime to the city

The Mastricks identified the indentified the increase on crime to the 1.6 million drug users.. Have they ever compared the numbers crimes to an influx of football supporters into a city during a European football match.. so ban football ? ... or the number of crimes during the Nottingham carnival I am sure the res.. How about a study of the crime increase if these teenagers travel as individuals or as part of a group ? This stinks of Xenophobic posturing of NIMBYs.. However let us look at that number.......1.6 million customers to 13 coffe shops... that is assuming one latte and one muffin each... that is 10 euro...16 million euros... for each cafe... a revenue of 1,23 million euros.. That is 337 clients in each cafe every day!!!!!!!i

However Mastrick has a population of 121000. that means every year more than 13 times the population visits the place...of course the resources of the place would be stretched.. That is like 35 million tourists visting Jamaica.. of course our garbage will be streched....if the visitors commited crimes at the same level of the natives then there would be 13 times the crime rate! of course there will be more garbage...However if each of these 1.6 millions of tourist have one dump of 0.25 kg and one urninary event of 100 ml... that is 40 millon liters of urine to process and 0.4 million tonnes of fecal material....that is alot of ****!!!!!!!!!!

According to the 1998 National Household Survey on Drug Abuse, teenage drug users are five times far more likely to attack someone than those who don't use drugs. About 20 percent of the 12-17 year olds reporting use of an illegal drug in the past year attacked someone with the intent to seriously hurt them, compared to 4.3 percent of the non-drug users.

And I thought that the reason y legalization was bad it made users lethagic and lazy..... Now they are aggressive teenagers.. Did they attack when under the influence of cannabis... ? or do these drug include others ??? Does this study lump in the alcohol users into these numbers ? How about banning teenagers completely that would reduce crime... Are tehre othr factors that make crime like poverty ? How about who are arrested ? this is yanki statistic and yanki statistics are always

Amsterdam one of the the most violent city in Europe????? must be a different universe there I was I thought it was Glasgow.... just A night out in Glasgow is like a Beruit in the 80s on steriods, just to a sound track of bagpipes.. But I dont like those sassancchs west coasters... Amsterdam more violent than Moscow, Tiblisis, Tirana.or Napoli ????????any where but Amsterdam.. Have u been to Amsterdam ?????? Violent ??????? I been down there . But I was wrong...... http://www.businessinsider.com/europ...es-2011-9?op=1 its Sofia (Those Bulgars!!!).. but according to Trip advisor it is Brussels....all those eurocrats hight on dragga... right....
Given that crime is forever linked to liberal weed policies.... then wow Netherlands must be the most violent place in Europe... not according to the Daily mail it is not!!!!! the UK is.... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...frica-U-S.html but that is in the EU... not including the rest of Europe... ie the wild east!!!!!!!!

Make the comparison with Kingston and Amsterdam.... Weed illegal in Kingston, legal in Amsterdam... Kingston more violent... ah a causative connection!!!!!! solution make drugs legal in Kingston..... Ah right!

Y is drug use intermingled and confused with drug abuser ??? There is a difference. Note the Dutch comment does not express a concern about older users....again they lumped all drugs together thus doing exactly what the How bout making illegal to teenagers.....let us adults mellow out if it is not an issue with us ?

Furthermore, the Dutch Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport has expressed "concern about drug and alcohol use among young people and the social consequences, which range from poor school performance and truancy to serious impairment, including brain damage."

[Tropicana]

You love contradict every strikin' ting eeh.

I guess the mayor of Amsterdam does not know what he is talking about.

Amsterdam has become more violent in the last couple of years, according to Mayor Eberhard van der Laan.Action movie Amsterdam Heavy is currently shooting on location in Amsterdam through the month of January, bringing a new take on the action genre to one of Europe’s most dynamic cities.
Amsterdam Heavy is a co-production between Funny How Films and The Content Factory, in association with Paradigm Pictures. The film is directed by Michael Wright and features a stellar cast of European talent, featuring Alison Carroll (the official Lara Croft model, English actress), Rik Sinkeldam (Dutch actor, stuntman, film producer) and Dutch celebrities including Jeroen Post (Host for K-1 events, DJ for Slam FM radiostation), Jörgen Raymann (show host, comedian), Dorien Rose Duinker (Official Angelina Jolie lookalike, Sapph Lingerie model, Dutch actress), Fajah Lourens (Dutch actress, FHM model, Sapph Lingerie model), Michael Florie (Formula Ford Champion) and Dutch actor Vincent Van Ommen. Also starring Belgian actor Johan De Paepe.
Unprecedented in scope, Amsterdam Heavy is taking the acting talent of Europe and blending it with powerfully choreographed fight scenes. Special appearances from Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) stars include Alistair Overeem (the current Strikeforce Heavyweight Champion, DREAM Interim Heavyweight Champion, and K-1 World Grand Prix Champion) , Semmy Schilt (four time K-1 World GP champion), Marloes Coenen (last fall’s Strikeforce Women’s Welterweight Champion) and Gokhan Saki (two time Dutch and European Muay Thai champion).
Amsterdam Heavy is an action-fueled story of one man’s relentless quest for revenge, as, against all the odds, he smuggles himself back from Bangkok to his home city, arriving with nothing but his fists and a burning desire for retribution.
The movie takes us on a roller-coaster journey into the violent, criminal heart of Amsterdam, with diverse characters, fast set pieces, a streak of dark humor, and a twist that opens up rich sequel opportunities.

http://www.dutchdailynews.com/violent-crime-on-the-streets-of-amsterdam/

FYI, no I have never been to the Netherlands but I regularly see some people who LIVE in The Netherlands and they are the ones who have alerted me to the issues w.r.t. the legalization of marijuana in The Netherlands. They are high up in the tourism industry too so I will say no more.

I guess they don't know what they are talking about either.

[Tropicana]

This article must be bogus too since it does not support your POV.

Again I guess the mayor does not know what he is talking about.

As further proof that legalization is not the answer to the problems stemming from prostitution, Amsterdam is taking even more steps to try and combat a growing infiltration of organized crime, trafficking and violence against women in their legalized brothels.


Information is coming out of Amsterdam that mayor Ederhard van der Lann has announced that the minimum age to work as a legal prostitute is being raised from 18 to 21 and that brothels will no longer be allowed to operate in the early morning hours.


Van der Lann said at a press conference that the moves came from a decision to crack down on crime in the city’s famed Red Light District and protect sex workers – mostly women – from abuse.


“We think the situation is so grave that we have to act,” Van der Lann told reporters.


Prostitution was legalized in the Netherlands in 2000, but has been tolerated in Amsterdam since the 1600′s. However, in recent years the city has had to admit that their legalized system is plagued with violence, coercion, drugs and human trafficking.


Starting in 2006 Amsterdam began a crackdown by closing a third of its previously licensed brothels. Since that time the city has introduced additional restrictions and has conducted studies that show that legalization has not resulted in significant lower incidences of abuse.


Dutch officials are now said to be studying Sweden’s prostitution laws which criminalizes being a customer (“John”) but not a prostitute.


.......article about a recent study that concluded that the legalization of prostitution significantly increases human sex trafficking.


........an article about the French Parliament considering making prostitution illegal in their county.

[Wahalla]

You love contradict every strikin' ting eeh.

I guess the mayor of Amsterdam does not know what he is talking about.

http://www.dutchdailynews.com/violent-crime-on-the-streets-of-amsterdam/

FYI, no I have never been to the Netherlands but I regularly see some people who LIVE in The Netherlands and they are the ones who have alerted me to the issues w.r.t. the legalization of marijuana in The Netherlands. They are high up in the tourism industry too so I will say no more.

I guess they don't know what they are talking about either.

No I point out ur low assumptions....

Remember u are the one who told me that when I write something does not make it true... my great grand father use of cannabis tea and or smoke as a pain killer and is anecdotal, now u present ...Amsterdam the most violent city in Europe ????????????? .I love that a fictional film is used as evidence of violent city......Here is what I found it is 4th for crime.....16 murder per year in a population of 3 million


Amsterdam: Murder & Criminality Rates

18 April 2012, by James Shaw

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Surprising figures from Eurostat have emerged suggesting that Amsterdam has one of the highest per capita number of murders and other unnatural deaths amongst European capitals.
Amsterdam ranks in 4th place out of 28 capitals, with 3,65 murders per 100.000 inhabitants, behind Vilnius, Tallinn and another shock candidate, Luxembourg.
Most crime in Amsterdam is not as severe, with Dutch police busy tackling driving offences, public disorder and minor robbery.
In addition, the Netherlands as a whole was placed on a more comforting 22nd position when compared to murder-rates in the other 27 European countries.
The total murder count for 2009 in the Netherlands was 179, a rate of just 1,05 murders per 100.000 inhabitants.

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But there it seems has been a increase two years back in murder...

I was wrong in 2010 and 2011 there were 16 murders... which is 16 per year in a population of 3 million in the Amsterdam metropoltian area... or the 820000 of central amsterdam ?????? that is a rate of 1,92 murders per 100000, Moscow has a murder rate of 6.78 per 100000 and Madrid a rate of 0.98 per 100000.. course this depends on where u get the data..

Amsterdam is one of Europe's murder capitals, says Eurostat

Thursday 05 April 2012
Amsterdam is in fourth place in the 2007-2009 murder rate league table put together by European statistics agency Eurostat, news agency ANP reported on Thursday.
During those three years, there were 3.65 murders per 100,000 people living in the Dutch capital, Eurostat said.
Only Vilnius in Lithuania (7.9), Tallin in Estonia (6) and Luxemburg (4.24) had higher rates than Amsterdam, the news agency quoted Eurostat as saying. Brussels was fifth with a murder rate of 3.09.
According to police figures, there were 19 murders in Amsterdam in 2008 and 31 in 2009 - five of which were related to Albanian gang violence.
However, in 2010 and 2011 there were just 16 murders in the capital, making it likely Amsterdam has gone back down the league table.
- See more at: http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archive....epKDjQqw.dpuf

with a population of 3,5 million in Amsterdam area....

However...

Amsterdam Best Town To Live In Despite Top Crime Rate

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May 28th, 2013 Share on facebookShare on twitterShare on emailShare on printMore Sharing Services

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In terms of crime, Amsterdam is the most dangerous city in the Netherlands. Nonetheless, the capital remains the most attractive city in Holland to live in, according to the 15th edition of the Atlas for Municipalities.¹
Each year the Foundation Atlas for Municipalities compares the country’s 50 largest municipalities on 50 indicators, such as crime figures, poverty, cultural offerings, infrastructure and accessibility.

Amsterdam tops the list in spite of negative points in such areas as poverty, the percentage of residents on welfare, and safety.
In fact, according to the annual Crime Meter published last week by Dutch newspaper Algemeen Dagblad, Amsterdam is the country’s least safe city.
The paper attributes this mainly to the large number of burglars and pickpockets operating in the city — and says tourism is partly to blame because the presence of tourists brings and increase in pickpocketing and nightlife violence.
On the other hand, the combination of an interesting city center, extensive cultural and culinary offerings, and the steady supply of work opportunities contributes to the city’s popularity.
In previous years Amsterdam also ranked at the top of the list, despite its relative inaccessibility. But here is where this year the city made great strides.
In the Atlas’ Top Ten of cities that made the greatest improvement in accessibility, Amsterdam takes second place, just after Amstelveen — a municipality in the city’s metropolitan area.
Murder

Last year Amsterdam ranked fourth in a list of European capitals with the highest per capita number of murders and other unnatural deaths, according to report by Eurostat, the statistics service of the European Union.

Man argues with Amsterdam police officer over a traffic ticket. Horse more interested than cop.

But according to Eurostat, it counted as homicide not just death by violent crime, but also death as the result of dangerous driving, abortion and help with suicide.It addition, over the past decade or so many homicides took place in the criminal circuit — with criminals killing other criminals in turf wars or acts of revenge.
Overall, Amsterdam is relatively safe, even for women traveling together or alone.
Worldwide: 12th Most Livable

In the 2012 version of its annual listing of the World’s Best Cities to live in, Mercer Consulting ranked Amsterdam at number 12. Mercer’s analysis is based on an evaluation of 39 quality-of-living criteria for each city including political, social, economic and environmental factors, personal safety and health, education, transport and other public services.