New: One more time - should ganja be legalized?

[Tropicana]

I have not read the entire thread because I am at work.

But which product has killed the largest percentage of its users.

- Ganja
- Alcohol
- Sugar
- Salt
- Automobiles
- Agricultural pesticides and herbicides

Which is the only substance that is illegal in most of the west?

Nuff said!

Killing is not the only negative side effect of any substance. At no time have I said that ganja is poisonous. Neither have any of the sources from which I have quoted. Ganja is not the only substance that is illegal in the West. You can't just legally buy LSD, Heroin, etc. either.

[Tropicana]

Wahalla....when you are willing to engage in a sensible discussion and not tout foolishness about the benefits of maggots and leeches, I'll be happy to continue the discussion with you. I have limited time to post and will not waste it discussing anything so ridiculous.

[My Looh]

Killing is not the only negative side effect of any substance.

Nope, but you would think it would be the most notable.

Oh, I forgot tobacco, that can also be added to my list above.

[Tropicana]

Nope, but you would think it would be the most notable.

Oh, I forgot tobacco, that can also be added to my list above.

Nope this has not entered the discussion at all. At no time have I discussed anything about ganja being lethal...though anything that is smoked will present health hazards.

[Fancy DatdamnDiva]

I have not read the entire thread because I am at work.

But which product has killed the largest percentage of its users.

- Ganja
- Alcohol
- Sugar
- Salt
- Automobiles
- Agricultural pesticides and herbicides

Which is the only substance that is illegal in most of the west?

Nuff said!

[Wahalla]

Wahalla....when you are willing to engage in a sensible discussion and not tout foolishness about the benefits of maggots and leeches, I'll be happy to continue the discussion with you. I have limited time to post and will not waste it discussing anything so ridiculous.

My point is that traditional medicine has a basis in fact... Cannabis is a traditional medicine and has been confirmed with drugs derived which u have dismissed... Maggots and leeches have had a long medicinal functionality who efficacy have been proved which has been reconfirmed by scientific study... and is acceptable no recommended by fact....... in ur eyes that is foolishness..... ????? I presented scientific studies which u touted earlier as nessery for proof....

Terapanning a tradtional by drilling a hole in the head is standard cure now, once described as which doctoring.... Moss was used as swathling for Taino babies has germicidal properties... all of which have in the last thirty years proved efficacious...

But to u it is all ridiculous....

[Wahalla]

Nope this has not entered the discussion at all. At no time have I discussed anything about ganja being lethal...though anything that is smoked will present health hazards.

lets see

toxicity comparison does not enter ie LD 50 mesasurement
traditional medical benefits
and a substance lethality is irrelevant... its LC 50 measurement is not an issue..

lethalal nature of things is

Again I know that smoking delivers carcinogens...

a heavy user of cannabis will smoke a an ounce of weed in a cigarette...but a light smoker of tobacco will smoke twenty a day... but based on this illogical assessment fo health cannabis is illegal ___????????

There are other delivery systems of cannabis, cookies, vapour... which removes the smoke danger.. the logic there is that smoking cannabis is illegal but eating cannabis or dosing in rum is legal as it moves out the low risk associated with smoke...

my problem is diesel... diesel up to 25 % benzene a carciogens it is pumped intot the enviromenat around us....we enter a service station and fill up we breath it in... But cannabis smoking is banned___???????it is logical to ban diesel not cannabis....

[Tropicana]

Milooh, since you insist on taking this discussion in this direction....read this...this should be the end of it.

This is only in response to your repeated comments about deaths...a claim I have not made. 10. The Old, Disingenuous Claim You’ll Find Online: Marijuana use has no effect on mortality.

A massive study of California HMO members funded by the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) found marijuana use caused no significant increase in mortality. Tobacco use was associated with increased risk of death. Sidney, S et al. Marijuana Use and Mortality. American Journal of Public Health. Vol. 87 No. 4, April 1997. p. 585-590. Sept. 2002.


The More Recent Research: Marijuana Use Disorder IS associated with higher mortality. A massive study was undertaken to understand the mortality rate of methamphetamine users, in relation to other drug users.


Results: Those treated for addiction to cannabis (marijuana) had a higher mortality rate (3.85 times higher than controls), higher if compared to death rate risk of cocaine use disorder (2.96), alcohol use disorder (3.83), but lower than opioid use disorder (5.71) or methamphetamine use disorder (4.67).


The study demonstrates that individuals with cannabis (marijuana) use disorders have a higher mortality risk than those with diagnoses related to cocaine or alcohol, but lower mortality risk than persons with methamphetamine or opioid-related disorders.

The Old, Disingenuous Claim You’ll Find Online: Marijuana does have medical value.

The Research: OOPS, SMOKED MARIJUANA DOES NOT HAVE A FUTURE AS MEDICINE.

Here is a review of the IOM report and more recent statements.
That same IOM report also said the following: “Smoked marijuana, however, is a crude THC delivery system that also delivers harmful substances.” Numerous studies suggest that marijuana smoke is an important risk factor in the development of respiratory disease.” “Chronic marijuana smoking might lead to acute and chronic bronchitis and extensive microscopic abnormalities in the cell lining the bronchial passageways, some of which may be premalignant. These respiratory symptoms are similar to those of tobacco smokers, and the combination of marijuana and tobacco smoking augments these effects.”
The potential harmful effects of chronic marijuana smoking outweigh its modest benefits in the treatment of glaucoma.” Their recommendations were:
1. Clinical trials of cannabinoid drugs for symptom management should be conducted with the goal of developing rapid-onset, reliable, and safe delivery systems.
2. Clinical trials of marijuana use for medical purposes should be conducted under the following limited circumstances: Trial should involve only short-term marijuana use (less than six months), Should be conducted in patients with conditions for which there is reasonable expectation of efficacy, Should be approved by institutional review boards., Should collect data about efficacy.Short-term use of smoked marijuana (less than six months) for patients with debilitating symptoms (e.g., intractable pain or vomiting) must meet the following conditions:

Failure of all approved medications to provide relief has been documented
The symptoms can reasonably be expected to be relieved by rapid-onset cannabinoid drugs
Such treatment is administered under medical supervision in a manner that allows for assessment of treatment effectiveness
Involves an oversight strategy comparable to an institutional review board that could provide guidance within 24 hours of submission by a physician to provide marijuana to a patient for specified use.
Crude marijuana is considered a Schedule 1 drug, the most restrictive designation given by the Controlled Substances Act (CSA) that places all drugs regulated by federal law into one of five schedules. What this means is that marijuana has a high potential for abuse; it has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the U.S.; it lacks the accepted safety for use of the drug under medical supervision; it cannot be prescribed by a doctor; it is not sold in a pharmacy; and
 is in the same category as heroin, LSD and Ecstasy (MDMA).
Crude marijuana has been rejected for medicinal use by many prominent national health organizations, including the American Medical Association, National Multiple Sclerosis Society, American Glaucoma Society, American Academy of Ophthalmology, American Cancer Society, National Eye Institute, National Institute for Neurological Disorders and Stroke and most importantly the Federal Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

Lots more here about the negative effects of marijuana back up by studies.

http://drthurstone.com/what-latest-top-cannabis-research-tells-us/

Notice I give FULL access to studies and articles I post so that you can check them out for yourself, I don't hide behind abstracts like Wahalla.

[Wahalla]

http://drthurstone.com/what-latest-t...arch-tells-us/

Notice I give FULL access to studies and articles I post so that you can check them out for yourself, I don't hide behind abstracts like Wahalla.

Really... this is just a collection of abstracts presented as confirmation of a conclusion..... not the full papers...basically a paper about papers.... a blog about abstracts....

She presents a cancer risk of cannabis smokers however she does not present, other enviromental factors...such as diet, income, employment, other drug use. other proven cancer inducers.....

She castigates smoking, however she does not demonstrate that a heavy cannabis user is not also a heavy smoker or a user of alternative drugs....

Nor does she examine the otehr delivery systems of cannabis....

She does not demonstrate if the smoker uses a combination of cannabis with tobbaco or pure herb or resin combination.....

[My Looh]

Tropi. Studies aside, my point is this.... there are products out there on the market that are perfectly legal that when used, cause their users to perish in much higher numbers (percentage wise) than does ganja.

Perhaps ganja affects a users mortality as your study illustrates. No argument here, but it pales in comparison when placed beside some of the legal products out there. Yet they remain legal.

[Fancy DatdamnDiva]

My point is that traditional medicine has a basis in fact... Cannabis is a traditional medicine and has been confirmed with drugs derived which u have dismissed... Maggots and leeches have had a long medicinal functionality who efficacy have been proved which has been reconfirmed by scientific study... and is acceptable no recommended by fact....... in ur eyes that is foolishness..... ????? I presented scientific studies which u touted earlier as nessery for proof....

Terapanning a tradtional by drilling a hole in the head is standard cure now, once described as which doctoring.... Moss was used as swathling for Taino babies has germicidal properties... all of which have in the last thirty years proved efficacious...

But to u it is all ridiculous....

lets see

toxicity comparison does not enter ie LD 50 mesasurement
traditional medical benefits
and a substance lethality is irrelevant... its LC 50 measurement is not an issue..

lethalal nature of things is

Again I know that smoking delivers carcinogens...

a heavy user of cannabis will smoke a an ounce of weed in a cigarette...but a light smoker of tobacco will smoke twenty a day... but based on this illogical assessment fo health cannabis is illegal ___????????

There are other delivery systems of cannabis, cookies, vapour... which removes the smoke danger.. the logic there is that smoking cannabis is illegal but eating cannabis or dosing in rum is legal as it moves out the low risk associated with smoke...

my problem is diesel... diesel up to 25 % benzene a carciogens it is pumped intot the enviromenat around us....we enter a service station and fill up we breath it in... But cannabis smoking is banned___???????it is logical to ban diesel not cannabis....

Really... this is just a collection of abstracts presented as confirmation of a conclusion..... not the full papers...basically a paper about papers.... a blog about abstracts....

She presents a cancer risk of cannabis smokers however she does not present, other enviromental factors...such as diet, income, employment, other drug use. other proven cancer inducers.....

She castigates smoking, however she does not demonstrate that a heavy cannabis user is not also a heavy smoker or a user of alternative drugs....

Nor does she examine the otehr delivery systems of cannabis....

She does not demonstrate if the smoker uses a combination of cannabis with tobbaco or pure herb or resin combination.....

[Tropicana]

Tropi. Studies aside, my point is this.... there are products out there on the market that are perfectly legal that when used, cause their users to perish in much higher numbers (percentage wise) than does ganja.

Perhaps ganja affects a users mortality as your study illustrates. No argument here, but it pales in comparison when placed beside some of the legal products out there. Yet they remain legal.

My Looh I will say it again.

I have not put forth any arguments or studies about whether or not ganja causes death except for that last one as you insisted on pushing the conversation in that direction. My objections to ganja have nothing to do with that.

[Tropicana]

Really... this is just a collection of abstracts presented as confirmation of a conclusion..... not the full papers...basically a paper about papers.... a blog about abstracts....

She presents a cancer risk of cannabis smokers however she does not present, other enviromental factors...such as diet, income, employment, other drug use. other proven cancer inducers.....

She castigates smoking, however she does not demonstrate that a heavy cannabis user is not also a heavy smoker or a user of alternative drugs....

Nor does she examine the otehr delivery systems of cannabis....

She does not demonstrate if the smoker uses a combination of cannabis with tobbaco or pure herb or resin combination.....

They go into a whole lot more detail than the level of sketchy detail in the abstracts you posted. In fact they are very detailed summaries. Would you like me to post the whole thing here?

[My Looh]

Tropi... You started this thread, not I. The name YOU gave the thread is... New: One more time - should ganja be legalized?

I am merely commenting on your question by pointing out that there are products that cause more people to die than ganja, YET they are sold legally. I think that should be considered when thinking about the question YOU posed. That is ALL I am saying.

I believe my response is pertinent to the question YOU asked, unless I am missing something.

If my coment to YOUR QUESTION does not meet with your approval then I am sorry YOU feel that way.

[Tropicana]

I said nothing about meeting approval. I do not have the power to approve anything on this board.

I said I have not discussed deaths from ganja as one of the reasons it should be banned and until you persisted in raising the issue I had posted no studies about that aspect.

FYI for those touting the benefits of Sativex, here are the harmful effects. It is taken in pill form or as a spray. This is much too long for me to post here.

http://multiplesclerosis.net/treatment/sativex/side-effects-safety-profile-review/

and this is from GW Pharma, the manufacturer...also too long to post:

http://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/medicine/23262/SPC/Sativex+Oromucosal+Spray/#CLINICAL_PRECAUTIONS

and

http://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/medicine/23262/SPC/Sativex+Oromucosal+Spray/#UNDESIRABLE_EFFECTS