Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns (Inspired by blugiant)

[halfwaytree]

Re: Thread Deleted? (Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turtledude</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70402-thinking.gif[/img] ...I think the crux of the matter lies in "repeatedly beating a dead horse." </div></div>


....and why is that line only pulled out when it is an issue dealing with race or involving racial dynamics? No one ever objects when other topics are discussed a zillion times. Fascinating. </div></div>

You make a good point Tropi. Although other than race and race related topics and perhaps homosexuality. What other subjects are posted a "zillion" times? Seriously, I can't think of any. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70402-thinking.gif[/img]

There is a total obsession! Not that there is anything wrong with that! If peoples hearts want to speak on the matter then it should be so. However, I can understand why turtledude would make such a comment.

[BND1999]

Re: Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns (Inspired by blugiant)

so many interesting and salient points here

[halfwaytree]

Re: Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns (Inspired by blugiant)

There are men and women who because of the looks that our culture has deemed to be unattractive feel the need to feel wanted, to feel almost "normal". What a terrible feeling going through life never feeling desired by another or even slightly noticed by anyone. Emotionally you are held a prisoner in solitary confinement because the images received from Madison Avenue and Hollywood do not reflect what God blessed you with. Many such people are socially challenged. It's kind of hard to develop social skills when no one wants anything to do with you.

So if such a person is willing to leave th backdrop of their confined lives for a week and travel to a place where they are willing to pay to have a "consenting adult", be they male or female, pamper them and pay some "special" attention to them, is it really so wrong.

As long as the sex is practiced under "safe" conditions and both adults are there of their own choosing then the renta biz is totally legit IMHO. I see it in Jamaica and in other places I have traveled (both men and women) and it really does not bother me to the same extent it seems to bother others here. I'm in total agreement with the culture in Holland.

As far as exploiting the poor goes, yes, this does bother me. However most of us probably exploit the poor every time we purchase a pair of shoes or buy a piece of clothing or eat a piece of fruit. The sweat shops and agricultural fields in third world countries probably make prostitution look like a cake walk to most.

So before we condemn, perhaps we should get off our own high horses!

[loops]

Re: Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns (Inspired by blugiant)

Milo. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70409-waytogo.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/iluvu.gif[/img]

[Nanook]

Re: Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns (Inspired by blugiant)

So Milo Man, you make some good points as well. Here is a for instance...

I have seen where a married couple goes to Jamaica on a vacation. The woman is beautiful, the man is handsome, they look like someone from a billboard. Both of them are successful.

Suddenly some smooth talking renta pon the beach is whispering sweet nothings into the womans ear. Maybe hubby has been forgetting that part or something because it becomes a melody in the womans ear and all common sense goes out he window. They go back to their lives but the woman can't get the melody of that accent telling her how she is the woman of his dreams. The next thing you know she is taking a vacation either alone or with a girlfriend because she must see this man again. Before you know it, she comes home and throws common sense out the window & gets a divorce and throws caution to the wind and gets seriously involved with her "rasta man". If this isn't a recipe for disaster nothing is, but sadly, it does happen.

Obviously there are deep seated underlying insecurities or some other something goin on for this to even happen but I am no shrink so I won't go there. This does happen a lot more than one would think and it isn't one sided either, for I have also heard of men (husbands, fathers, so called family men) doing it.

Anyway, I guess what I am tryin to say here..is when you see these mixed couples we can never really know the story unless we are told from the horses mouth. And then even if that happens, take it all with a grain of salt.

[Pepper]

Re: Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns (Inspired by blugiant)

Tropicana,

All replies from the comments in feedback have been merged with this thread.

[BND1999]

Re: Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns (Inspired by blugiant)

very good points Milo.....

easy for those who have had good relationships.. find them easy.. to make such judgements of those who are having difficulty.....for whatever reason

[tsophra]

Re: Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns (Inspired by blugiant)

don't the same topics,,themes,pics pop up in the tourist section fairly regularly? [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70402-thinking.gif[/img] I really don't care.. just responding to your statement re repeated topics [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/bubble.gif[/img]

[tsophra]

Re: Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns (Inspired by blugiant)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> an the tourist are being exploited too...some knowingly..some not </div></div>

In some cases, yes. The guys are hoodwinking them into thinking they are in a "real", "exclusive", romantic relationship. They're using them.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
mebbe dose juss chose de "easy" way out...nuff jamaican men have same background an mek different choices..

have yu or Tropi ever hung out in any of the tourist spots? Have you ever seen the way the men that chose this lifestyle operate?

</div></div>

Of course and for the life of me I just don't understand why some women find the clumsy attempts at seduction appealing. That is what really baffles me. I find nothing sexy or appealing about

"s-s-s-s-s-s s-s-s-s-s"

"'ello sexy"

or

"nice lady"

In fact it creeps me out.

When tourist women come on here about these men make me feel special and like a princes I think "Wha' mek?" When one continues some of the points raised in the article CEW posted, I guess for some of these women being completely overlooked as "unattractive" by their own White men, any attention feels like their being treated special. In this scenario, it's hard not to think of the term "desperate woman".

Now if we look at the older, pot bellied European men stalking young women in Asia, I guess it's the same scenario at play. So many of them put a premium on being with a "young, slim" woman to feed their ego and no "young, slim" woman in their own countries would want them. Of couse, this is just one dynamic at play. This is a complex issue. </div></div>

the cat calling is light weight stuff and...but I guess if yu hear it all de time...people might actually stawt to believe there's summen dat de island men see in them that men at home hve been missing...anyways what i'm chatting bout is on a whole different level..

[tsophra]

Re: Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns (Inspired by blugiant)

yep...i became friendly with a married woman who planned to do just that..i was discussing it with the bartenders at the hotel and they broke down for me just how many times that particular scenario's played out.. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek2.gif[/img]

[evanovitch]

Re: Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns (Inspired by blugiant)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is based on a comment blugiant made in one of his threads (do I really have to go find it) and a conversation I had with a young White male on a train this week.

How come, when you go to Jamaica, you see throngs of older White women in search of young fit black men....yet when you go to Asia, you never see throngs of older White women in search of young Asian men?

How come when you to go Asia, you see throngs of older White men in search of young, slim and submissive Asian women....yet when you go to Jamaica you don't see throngs of older White men in search of young, Black women?

Sometimes the people doing the searching are married.

[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/dizzy.gif[/img]

Is it a case of:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Okay honey, this year for vacation, I will go to Bangkok in search of a fling...you go to Ja.? </div></div>

Wha' mek????

[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/dizzy.gif[/img]

Inquiring minds want to know.

Mandotaroy disclaimer:

(As some a onoo insist on trying fe mek mi serious threads fun and mi light hearted threads serious?)


This is one of my light hearted frivolity threads. It is not one of my serious threads. It is intended for fun and entertainment.
</div></div>

to go bak to u initial post an statement, let me refer u to one the findings of those STILL committed to the growing trend of this sort of abuse being treated as an industry:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> To many governments around the world, international tourism can be the answer to economic growth and development. Tourism also brings consumerism to many parts of the world formerly denied access to luxury commodities and services. Growing consumerism and the commodification of sexuality may also be contributing to an increase in sex tourism of children.5

i was astounded to read the even the IMF encouraged the growth in one society....so u see, u get the impression that as long as it is not me an mine, others making decisions for self...but which one holds the upper hand in really making the decision...the one who holds the money in fist or the one who feels this is the way to get hold of said money being held in fist...what motivates each....


</div></div>

gwane tru Tropi, the topic transcends the few Jamaiacan experiences we read about....the ones we dont but we see the trend towards, is what the fight is all about.... [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/proud_jamaica.gif[/img]

working dusk to dawn in a sweat shop is one up to having some person invade ur orifices wen dem want, if dem want, wid wat dem want, however painful, etc ...and at least we know dat u can ongle work from certain age...we have come to see that sex tourism, while the focus is on the adults, NEVER REMAINS WITH THEM

[evanovitch]

Re: Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns (Inspired by blugiant)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> why people go abroad for sex...for many reasons including

Anonymity
Availability
Affordability
Lack of child-protection laws in foreign countries
Low risk of detection
Role of the Internet

Unfortunately there are still numerous small travel companies throughout the world that promote sex tourism of children by identifying resorts where prostitution is widespread. Because these companies are so small, they rarely draw attention from law enforcement.6


In addition the advent of the Internet has revolutionized the growth of the sex-tourism-of-children industry. Some Internet chatrooms, message boards, and online organizations not only encourage this form of tourism, but give detailed instructions about how to partake in it.7

The various areas of the Internet allow offenders to communicate with others who have already traveled to another country for this purpose. From the comfort of their own homes, they can plan their vacation and purchase their tickets with relative anonymity
</div></div>

if u dont focus on the fact that they keep saying "children" , u can see the variables indicate that we r but at the advent of our long run

wat is happening now, is that focus is being put on adult sex tourism as the whole tone of it changes...is not juss a one off, wid a psst an a whip round the corner...big bizniz an withoug constant vigilance, we gwine to be trying to do something about it wen it is out of control as opposed to nipping it in the bud , or at least shine enuff light now,that maybe, it makes a difference

[evanovitch]

Re: Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns (Inspired by blugiant)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The World Bank has a role in addressing prostitution when it is loaning $1.9 billion US dollars to Thailand for projects.5 Its history of supporting sex tourism in Thailand makes it unlikely that current policy critically considers the effects of sex tourism on women in children. In fact, the current World Bank pages on Thailand do not even mention the sex tourism industry or prostitution. Projects to improve the lives of women and children in Thailand cannot work if the role of sex tourism is not addressed.
</div></div>

[evanovitch]

Re: Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns (Inspired by blugiant)

Prostitution & Sex Tourism

What are Prostitution & Sex Tourism?

Who is affected by Prostitution & Sex Tourism?
How do Prostitution & Sex Tourism affect health?

Why do Prostitution & Sex Tourism affect Third World Women more than others?

How are people working to solve the problem of Prostitution & Sex Tourism?

What is being done right now about Prostitution & Sex Tourism?



I. What are Prostitution & Sex Tourism?

Prostitution and sex tourism fall under a more general category of sexual exploitation. Sexual exploitation happens when one person (or persons) receives sex or money through abusing another person's sexuality.1 For an example of prostitution, a man may receive sex and a pimp may receive money by using a woman as a prostitute. In sex tourism, an American man may pay a sex travel agency for a trip to Thailand which includes airfare, hotel, food, and women for sex. Prostitution can include traditional forms of prostitution (through a brothel, the military, or on the streets), and also sex tourism, sex trafficking, and mail order bride selling.1




II. Who is affected by Prostitution & Sex Tourism?

It is difficult to estimate how many people are working in prostitution because so many women working as waitresses, hotel maids, salesclerks, bar girls, and golf caddies are forced into prostitution as part of their work.2 In Thailand, it has been estimated that at least 200,000 women and children work in prostitution.3 At least one-third of Thai prostitutes are under the age of 18, and most adult prostitutes started when they were only children.2 Children as young as six years old work in prostitution.2 Prostitutes are primarily women and girls, although some men and boys also work in prostitution.

Many of the children who work in prostitution come from extremely poor families -- the child's work as a prostitute may feed her entire family.2 Women and children may also be illegal trafficked from one country to another under the belief that they will find work in another country. Their traffickers force them to pay a high price, and to work in prostitution on their arrivals in order to pay for their travel.2




III. How do Prostitution & Sex Tourism affect health?


Physical Health
The sexual health of women and children in prostitution is severely harmed in many ways:

Increased risk of HIV/AIDS
Risk of sexually transmitted infections
Risk of unwanted pregnancy
Vaginal tearing
Violence
Rape
Physical abuse
Confinement

Mental Health
Prostitution is a violation of women's human rights, and treats women as objects. The pain of being treated so poorly can lead to depression and resignation. The state of girls' mental health is best illustrated by Poppy, quoted in The Child and the Tourist by Ron O'Grady:

"I found myself dancing at a club at the age of 11... I have had different kinds of customers, foreigners and Filipinos. I tried suicide but it didn't work so I turned to drugs. I want to die before my next birthday." (Quoted on http://www.equalitynow.org/action_eng_12_1.html)4

Women's Health
Prostitution teaches men to view women as objects. Thus not only are women and children who are prostitutes harmed, but all women are harmed by prostitution.





IV. Why do Prostitution & Sex Tourism affect Third World Women more than others?

Prostitution has become an industry in Thailand with the major help of the United States military and the World Bank. During the Vietnam War, the U.S. Department of Defense had a contract with the Thai government to provide "Recreation & Relaxation" for U.S. soldiers.2 With money from the U.S. government, local Thai prostitution organized and expanded into a major industry. In 1975, the World Bank built an economic plan for Thailand around the sex tourism industry, which helped turn sex tourism into the country's number one export.2 Prostitution has now become such an important industry, that work to end prostitution must also support the growth of new industries.




V. How are people working to solve the problem of Prostitution & Sex Tourism?


Criminalizing prostitution
Although prostitution is illegal in Thailand, it is often protected by law enforcement agencies.3 When prostitution is illegal, it often means that it is illegal for a woman to be a prostitute, but not illegal for a man to pay a prostitute. This continues to harm the woman who is in prostitution, instead of helping her find ways out of prostitution. It also gives men free license to continue to find other women to exploit. When making prostitution illegal, the roles should be switched; men should be arrested for purchasing a prostitute, while women should not be thrown in jail for being a prostitute.1

Promoting policies that address prostitution
Governments have a role in prosecuting companies that sell sex tourist packages. For example, in New York, prostitution laws state that: "a person is guilty of promoting prostitution in the third degree when he knowingly advances or profits from prostitution by managing, supervising, controlling or owning...a prostitution business or enterprise involving prostitution activity by two or more prostitutes...." 4 Sex tourism agencies originating in New York could be prosecuted under this law.

The World Bank has a role in addressing prostitution when it is loaning $1.9 billion US dollars to Thailand for projects.5 Its history of supporting sex tourism in Thailand makes it unlikely that current policy critically considers the effects of sex tourism on women in children. In fact, the current World Bank pages on Thailand do not even mention the sex tourism industry or prostitution. Projects to improve the lives of women and children in Thailand cannot work if the role of sex tourism is not addressed.

Increasing opportunities in education and employment
Women and children are not freely choosing the work in prostitution; it is a "choice" based purely on the economics of food and shelter. Girls who work as prostitutes in Thailand can provide for their entire family, while most other jobs cannot. It will take economic change to help women and children seriously considering leaving the sex tourism industry. Jobs must be available that can provide for families, and people must be trained to do them. New industry must replace the current sex industry to enact real change for women and children in prostitution.





VI. What is being done right now about Prostitution & Sex Tourism?

Ms. Magazine recently compiled a list of resources to stop sex trafficking, many of which appear here (or lead to resources that appear here).
Coalition Against Trafficking in Women "works internationally to oppose all forms of sexual exploitation." Actions include support for policy against trafficking and prostitution; statements on the United Nations and governmental roles to work against traffikcing; and a report of a protest against one company that provides sex tours. Based in the United States

http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/

catw/catw.htm
Coalition Against Prostitution, Child Abuse & Trafficking. Gives Thai-based organizations space to document their work on poverty, prostitution, and child labor, in order to compel people to take action. Based in Thailand

http://www.capcat.ksc.net/

The Center for the Protection of Children's Rights: Advocates for abused children, and works to stop trafficking. Based in Thailand
[email protected]
Empower: Provides services such as health education, job training, and literacy classes to sex workers. Based in Thailand
Mail: P.O. box 1065; Silom Post Office; Bangkok 10504; Thailand
Foundation for Women: Helps women vulnerable to trafficking by creating economic alternatives to prostitution. Based in Thailand
[email protected]
Equality Now: Advocates for women's human rights. Recommends actions directed at United States officials to prosecute sex tourism companies. Based in the United States.

http://www.equalitynow.org/

References:
Coalition Against Trafficking in Women. Philosophy.
Retrieved July 2, 2000 from the World Wide Web:

http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/catw/philos.htm

Rogers, B. (Oct/Nov 1999). Bitter harvest. Ms. Magazine, 9. New York: Liberty Media for Women.
U.S. Department of State. (1999). Thailand Country Report on Human Rights Practices for 1998.
Retrieved July 2, 2000 from the World Wide Web:

http://www.state.gov/www/global/human_rights/

1998_hrp_report/thailand.html
Equality Now. (December 1996). Women's Action 12.1: Sex Tourism: "Real sex with real girls, all for real cheap"
Retrieved July 2, 2000 from the World Wide Web:

http://www.equalitynow.org/action_eng_12_1.html

The World Bank Group. (September 1999). The World Bank and Thailand.
Retrieved July 2, 2000 from the World Wide Web:

http://wbln0018.worldbank.org/eap/eap.nsf/

7a4109e5442319dc852567c9007162e0/
6cfed203c337dcd0852567d7007c7630?OpenDocument




Dawn Haney, July 2000

Last Modified: 1/4/2001

Contact: Dawn Haney [email protected]

[evanovitch]

Re: Mzungu Sex Tourism Patterns (Inspired by blugiant)

Effects of the West


What effect has the West had on Third World women's health?

So you are concerned about Third World women's health. You may even be thinking about doing something to help improve Third World women's health. "Helping" is an important part of becoming part of the solution.

We often assume that any "help" is good help. However, intended "help" can sometimes cause more harm than good. How can we tell if help is good or bad? And how can we ensure that our help is good?
Good help -- or bad?
How can I deliver good help?


Last Modified: 2/08/2004

Contact: Dawn Haney [email protected]