Race & Ethinic Relations: the UK & Europe vs North America

[Derek]

Re: Race & Ethinic Relations: the UK & Europe vs North Amer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sardine</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My parents came over in the sixties and 'encountered many experiences'. You said MOST blacks don't own property. I said I know many blacks who do. So why are you telling me to be careful not to confuse Social Housing with ownership? I know the difference, but <span style="font-weight: bold">it appears your sad uncle didn't.</span> </div></div>

Fair point! But I am sure you know people in YOUR family (especially in England) who aren't well versed on every topic and can be easily FOOLED as well, don't you?

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No I don't.

[Fyah]

Re: Race &amp; Ethinic Relations: the UK &amp; Europe vs North Amer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sardine</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My parents came over in the sixties and 'encountered many experiences'. You said MOST blacks don't own property. I said I know many blacks who do. So why are you telling me to be careful not to confuse Social Housing with ownership? I know the difference, but <span style="font-weight: bold">it appears your sad uncle didn't.</span> </div></div>

Fair point! But I am sure you know people in YOUR family (especially in England) who aren't well versed on every topic and can be easily FOOLED as well, don't you?

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No I don't. </div></div>

LOL!

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[Fyah]

Re: Race &amp; Ethinic Relations: the UK &amp; Europe vs North Amer

Wahalla, why did you delete that <span style="font-weight: bold">very insightful post</span>?

Thanks anyway.

[Stormmey]

Re: Race &amp; Ethinic Relations: the UK &amp; Europe vs North Amer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the (white) young people I know in <span style="font-weight: bold">America</span>, are far less concerned about about racially inherited features than older generations are, or so it seems to me. They are concerned much more with the content of your heart, your tats, your facebook page, and what you do to pay your way, than the color of your skin.
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forty this just about sums it up for me, describes me aptly, meanwhile the granparents, grandaunts still stuck in racism, colour of skin and favour the blonde blue eyed grankids, and grandneices over the brunettes

Heaven help you if you bi-racial (especially black blood) them ignore you completely

[Stormmey]

Re: Race &amp; Ethinic Relations: the UK &amp; Europe vs North America

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nylah</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Serenity82</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nylah</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I left England too young of an age to have my own opinion but when I listen to what my cousins have to say, they seem to make a distinction between classism and rascism.

They feel they are denied opportunities despite their education level, due to class issues rather than race. From my perspective, they are intertangable but to them this isnt so.

Curious to know what those in the U.K think about that. </div></div>

I'm in a major Caribbean group here where I live and we have several members who are from the UK(Jamaican parents, born in the UK). All of them say the same thing, that all the blacks are wondering 'where are the jobs' for them because of the discrimination that occurs in the UK. How naive to think Europe is somehow 'less racist' than the US when US whites come from Europe, and here atleast blacks can make certain claims since everyone is the descendent of settlers. I lived in the UK, met and talked to many black british, there is no where near as many black professionals or as many opportunities like there are in the US. </div></div>

I have no energy to figure out the point of your rambling.

Naive is a word best applied to yourself.

Posing the question I did in no way indicates what I think - only done to create a point of discussion. You a little to naive to see this?

As stated on this board before, Europe and N America have very different histories that do effect level of racism and its manifestations.

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Nylah!! you are a polite lady some threads and topic starters I just read and sometimes learn, also sometimes wonder why some people cannot disagree with someone without the insults...cho nawotmemean Nylah.

[Stormmey]

Re: Race &amp; Ethinic Relations: the UK &amp; Europe vs North America

You know Tropi, I might not agree with everything you say in your threads but must say you post some thought provoking threads that always garner a lot of responses. Even the people that seem to dislike your board persona always run come in to insult you. Lady you got the power is magnetism or what

[Gen]

Re: Race &amp; Ethinic Relations: the UK &amp; Europe vs North America

i have relatives in england and mi sure dem own dem house


anyway can somebody bruk dung the house buying process in england fi mi, the little that I know is from HGTV and house hunters international. that's how i learned about &quot;estate&quot; and other terms

ok 1 episode pointed out the difference in buying a house and the land under it vs. buying the house but not the land under it would be leased fi like 100 years (wah dat name leasehold)

why would someone choose to purchase a house on land that does not belong to the buyer of the house ? dat nuh mek nuh sense

dat seem like leftover from feudal days

[Stormmey]

Re: Race &amp; Ethinic Relations: the UK &amp; Europe vs North America

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> why would someone choose to purchase a house on land that does not belong to the buyer of the house ? dat nuh mek nuh sense
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Gen maybe this is condominium house, in Canada you own the house/apt but not the land. They look after the grounds, pool, recreational facilities etc. you do not have to do this, works for some peeps as they do not have to deal with the snow, cut grass stuff like that. They will also do major repairs like roof repair, doors, also you cannot change some exterior stuff without their permission.

[Gen]

Re: Race &amp; Ethinic Relations: the UK &amp; Europe vs North America

stormy, a condo is completely separate ..different kettle of fish


these are actual detached houses in England I am referring to, no other houses on the particular plot of land but that ONE dege dege house. the owner is also responsible for the grounds etc etc and any repairs.

[Stormmey]

Re: Race &amp; Ethinic Relations: the UK &amp; Europe vs North America

awright Gen!! gotcha I guess I misunderstood at first, but it only 9:00am here and have yet to get my cuppa coffee then sometime me bit slow

[rufian]

Re: Race &amp; Ethinic Relations: the UK &amp; Europe vs North Amer

For the nice part which is personal

It seems as though whenever there is some discussion about discrimination the sign that people are looking for is whether black people get the work they are after or not. Kind of sad.

Anyways with the jest of things, as a black person I find here and the surroundings offer quite a few opportunities to blacks. You can actually be what you want to be. I understand what Nylah was saying about her cousins but I find it not just to be a matter of class or exhibition but also social network. Although me used to hate when me father say you have to have manner to get ahead he would be proud to see me agree now.
You have to know the social rules of the land which thanks to European influence is not hard to get to know. The difference between negative and positive racism to the receiver is a matter of the class of the person at the other end and what they desire from you. Now I make my life easy to live in a better surroundings where the people somehow pretend to be better and above racism. People will only greet you with the house if you have introduced yourself to them formally, and if you never know this you will claim they are racist when they past you straight. But sometimes I couldnt be bothered as I do not like to pretend.

I find that you cannot get anywhere without being introduced and that is where social networking comes in. Which to me makes sense, people need to be sure of YOU. In other words, you are likely to get a job either being a few times fore-screened or a friend in the company brought you in, putting down their necks on the block for you. But I understand that they have their people in the first row, if you are black person you better not want to work as a secretary but go with the market demands. There the chance is higher because the wiser entrepreneur will but his profit in top priority over racism.

I cannot speak for blacks in general because the image people have of my origin when known to them is even better than their own in their eyes. Image is very important. And blacks from the west can get by. America is a role-model and thank goodness the image of a black executive or an intelligent black person is well known.
Now I am almost certain that because of racism on my own island I would not have received the opportunities that I get here.

I would say that if a black can make it or not it is really an individual thing. Plenty of black Africans that I know claim that racism is the sole cause for them not getting jobs. I have seen the differences in those that actually got jobs.

This is just my experience ana brag me a brag either but it does prove that a black person can make it carreer-wise on mainland Europe where blacks are 'missing'.

I am sure that sexism plays a role. Fortunately and unfortunately I haven't worked with females yet. I started out as a freelancer and communication always went smoothly. I don't recall having to show certification except where it determined the fee. Could be that my composure is spot on or some are scared of being labelled as racist.
The first company I worked at was Egyptian owned then I worked at an Italian owned and then that was convincing enough to get on the larger market.
This is not a recommendation because it must fit the whole package: I find that a rough up attitude is required. You must prove your character is strong to combat mobbing, which makes a lot of sense as a black person.

For projects I have had those interviews with a few employees who would attempt to keep you out, when asked stupid question I had to rough them and ask me how it went

Being a black woman it is not easy because I can imagine that a company would take into consideration the attitudes of their workforce.
I had led a small team of white males and boy you can imagine. No strategy can change which is already culturally established. Firstly, these men are used to that computing is a male thing and are very macho by nature. So for me, the sexism then the racism. If they could jump through the window to get out of the team they would
And talk about not implementing orders or stealing the trips you should get. Now from my cousins in London told me of similar incidents in management which seems to be the norm. But they work in a mixed setting.
Well then, took off some time with kids and back in the ring This time a teach me a teach dem. Same ish, but funny the men can be more amicable and challenging than the females. The women have a kind of *****y attitude but can be kept a bay by the men. Had stupid incidences like meeting some woman sitting in your chair, coming in early and disconnecting you from the network.
With all the scheming you just see sometimes humans are humans despite race. For me what I havent accomplished is my own fault. I fault my not paying enough attention to the demands on the market, family is higher on my list and me kyaan stand certain people for long.

I did have similar good experiences in Ireland, except for the stupid controllers at the airport, I think it could have been the surname and or the passport's origin. I could change money by the rate I mentioned but back then there was no black minority to say. People whom I was afraid of because of how white(northern looking) they appeared were rather friendly. I was treated with respect. Gentlemen tipped the hat when greeting in the villages, which I also experience here sometimes too.

In all, the more racism I have experienced comes from foreigners. In London my first was from Greeks. If you ask me some of them just happy dem find people fe discriminate because they are discriminated themselves.
Here you have Eastern Europeans probably scared of finding themselves below a black person.
My best experience are with Hungarians and I am not the only black person with such experience with them. Very orderly and respectful. You can even find those that will wait on you, had one who used to bring the garbage bin.
But ask me about Slavic babysitters and house cleaners it is like the world has come to an end for them to work with you.

So Tropicana on the business level I doubt you would feel any racism at all, especially being from the Caribbean. But I promise to bring info which I doubt I will find in English, not much escape these parts.

[Nylah]

Re: Race &amp; Ethinic Relations: the UK &amp; Europe vs North Amer


strommey,you are too sweet

Derek, I am with you on this one. Very few of my extended family in the U.K. dont own their own property. And they are as middle class as they come. They went to England with nothing but the clothes on their back and a whole heap of common sense.

Either your title has your name on it or it doesnt. You cant go into the bank and use your house as collateral if you dont either own it or at least are paying a mortgage against it. Some sold their homes and retired in JA. Others own homes in both places. And these are railroad porters and factory workers who managed to secure their lives.

I think one person's experience doesnt necessarily represent the average. I find ppl choose not to pay attention to the obvious and then act surprised when they get caught up in things.

sukuna - thanks for fleshing out the issue. What my cousins trying to say makes more sense. Social networking is a strong guardian to entries into certain areas. But you touched on a sensitive - some of what we experience is defined by our own reactions and attitudes towards our encounters.

[Tropicana]

Re: Race &amp; Ethinic Relations: the UK &amp; Europe vs North America

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have relatives in england and mi sure dem own dem house
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That's funny. I always thought you were White.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stormmey1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You know Tropi, I might not agree with everything you say in your threads but must say you post some thought provoking threads that always garner a lot of responses. Even the people that seem to dislike your board persona always run come in to insult you. Lady you got the power is magnetism or what </div></div>

Tonx.

[Fyah]

Re: Race &amp; Ethinic Relations: the UK &amp; Europe vs North Amer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nylah</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
strommey,you are too sweet

Derek, I am with you on this one. Very few of my extended family in the U.K. dont own their own property. And they are as middle class as they come. They went to England with nothing but the clothes on their back and a whole heap of common sense.

Either your title has your name on it or it doesnt. You cant go into the bank and use your house as collateral if you dont either own it or at least are paying a mortgage against it. Some sold their homes and retired in JA. Others own homes in both places. And these are railroad porters and factory workers who managed to secure their lives.

I think one person's experience doesnt necessarily represent the average. I find ppl choose not to pay attention to the obvious and then act surprised when they get caught up in things.

sukuna - thanks for fleshing out the issue. What my cousins trying to say makes more sense. Social networking is a strong guardian to entries into certain areas. But you touched on a sensitive - some of what we experience is defined by our own reactions and attitudes towards our encounters.
</div></div>

There is no ONE SIZE FITS ALL in the game of life. If one does not fully understand how things are &quot;set up&quot; in different places, it is the common thing to &quot;think&quot; that is must work the same as is familiar.

Gen asked a very interesting question above. How is it possible to own a house but not the land on which the house stands? Well, in Jamaica, that is unheard of...as is in MOST of the &quot;free&quot; world, yet in England that is a fact that I am sure one of our British experts will be able to explain soon enough. It is important for us all to LEARN about each others' experiences, even if it doesn't apply to our immediate families, etc. because, though we might think that we are far ABOVE or BEYOND the mistakes made by others, it will come back to HAUNT us, unless we LEARNED.

Unless one understands what took place in England and what many &quot;West Indians&quot; had to do to make it in that place, then as said before, it is easy to classify those who were HOODWINKED as &quot;sad, stupid and ignorant&quot;.

All I can say is, I am amazed at what I have learned from my family members, some who still reside in the UK and others who have &quot;escaped&quot; as they describe it. Some of the stories will make you think, others will make you judge, but nevertheless, it is an experience that need to first be <span style="font-weight: bold">understood</span>.

It is not difficult for many Jamaicans to learn about the experiences because many have relatives and friends who either still live in the UK, or are from the UK.

[Fyah]

Re: Race &amp; Ethinic Relations: the UK &amp; Europe vs North America

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have relatives in england and mi sure dem own dem house
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That's funny. I always thought you were White.</div></div>

Why would you do that?