RIP Hon Dudley Thompson

**Tuff Gong** · 01-28-2012, 08:19 PM

Re: Comrade Dudley Thompson is dead

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Love Iya

In the search for truth, it is not about winning an argument but getting the facts context and perspectives right and on the table for discourse. </div></div>

LOL did any of the links you posted and arguments you put forward explain how the MIU could:

1 In a JLP enclave in the then Prime Minister's Constituency, train a group on men for two weeks for employment.
2. Transport them miles away to Green Bay only to turn their guns on them killing five?
3. Plant guns at the scene of the crime.
4. Cause a false police report to be broadcast on all Radio Stations in Jamaica?

**franksterr** · 01-29-2012, 10:55 AM

Re: Comrade Dudley Thompson is dead

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Love Iya

In the search for truth, it is not about winning an argument but getting the facts context and perspectives right and on the table for discourse.

LOL did any of the links you posted and arguments you put forward explain how the MIU could:</div></div>

YES.....did you read them and or follow the links?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1 In a JLP enclave in the then Prime Minister's Constituency, train a group on men for two weeks for employment.</div></div>

Provide your supporting arguments that these men were trained for two weeks?
So our dialogue may move along...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2. Transport them miles away to Green Bay only to turn their guns on them killing five?
3.Plant guns at the scene of the crime.</div></div>

I have already told you my opinion of what I think happen there and provided the necessary supporting info and links.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">4. Cause a false police report to be broadcast on all Radio Stations in Jamaica? </div></div>

What is the nature of this false report - a shoot out?

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">WHATEVER CAN BE ASSERTED WITHOUT EVIDENCE CAN BE DISMISS WITHOUT EVIDENCE</span></span>......You have yet to substantiate one bit of your argument with any corroborating information

**Tuff Gong** · 01-30-2012, 08:16 PM

Re: Comrade Dudley Thompson is dead

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">YES.....did you read them and or follow the links?</div></div>

None of them did!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1 In a JLP enclave in the then Prime Minister's Constituency, train a group on men for two weeks for employment.</div></div>

Came out at the trial, the COE, was never challenged by the GOJ or any parties involved.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have already told you my opinion of what I think happen there....</div></div>
Precisely ......it is your opinion versus the facts.
You are disputing facts that the men were recruited and trained for work!
You are disputing the fact that they were transported miles away to Green Bay from South Side!
You are disputing the fact that the military operation was led by the MIU. That the men were shot and guns placed on them!

The above unchallenged facts came out, at the trial, contemporary reports, subsequent reports, confession by at least one high ranking officer present in the operation and surviours reports (the last one published in 2007, I think?).
You have ignored all the reliable, unchallenged, sources to post a bag nonsense, posited by folks who must haven been high on some bad weed.

....And your chair-leader brought out the [censored]-Poms ...shook it and declared you the winner.....LOL!

**franksterr** · 01-31-2012, 08:59 AM

Re: Comrade Dudley Thompson is dead

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=franksterr]YES.....did you read them and or follow the links?

None of them did!</div></div>

Here is a re-post of my earlier response......you in some deep denial.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These ar all trade mark CIA operations, here is how they usually accomplish this.....they find poor ( semi-illiterate) youths and promise them money or even give huge sums of money, then they find greedy members of the security establishment. Who they also give money, set up a incident and then blame it on the government.
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fv3_IWEpaqI&feature=player_embedded"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fv3_IWEpaqI&feature=player_embedded" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
Go to 4:26 - 5:29 minutes if you in a rush.

So it is time you realize that Jamaicans are involve in these crimes as victims twice, as the willing patsy (prepetrator) and the victims. It is the Responsibility of the then Government to take responsibility by re-acting and being proactive.......but in no way are they the cause or to carry or hold blame. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1 In a JLP enclave in the then Prime Minister's Constituency, train a group on men for two weeks for employment.

Came out at the trial, the COE, was never challenged by the GOJ or any parties involved.</div></div>
Whose Fault is that?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have already told you my opinion of what I think happen there....
Precisely ......it is your opinion versus the facts.</div></div>
Yes! as I was not there, it is my opinion supported by facts
Were you there?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are disputing facts that the men were recruited and trained for work!</div></div>
Never disputed that the men were recruited for work.
I ask you to provided supporting info that they were also trained?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are disputing the fact that they were transported miles away to Green Bay from South Side!</div></div>
Thats a bold lie.....I never disputed that and I challenged you to provide the post?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are disputing the fact that the military operation was led by the MIU. That the men were shot and guns placed on them!</div></div>
I never denied this....pure unadulterated untruth, slanderous.
Where are you getting these ideas from, please show where and when I denied these facts?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The above unchallenged facts came out, at the trial, contemporary reports, subsequent reports, confession by at least one high ranking officer present in the operation and surviours reports (the last one published in 2007, I think?).
You have ignored all the reliable, unchallenged, sources to post a bag nonsense, posited by folks who must haven been high on some bad weed.</div></div>
Did this high ranking officer implicate Dudley Thompson?
You full of it, where did I deny the facts....please provide one instance?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">....And your chair-leader brought out the [censored]-Poms ...shook it and declared you the winner.....LOL! </div></div>

Are you being purposely misleading, Jah_yout never declared me the winner. What I got from his post is that I was bringing a lot of supporting information (artillery) to bear in this discussion (battle).

**Tuff Gong** · 01-31-2012, 01:23 PM

Re: Comrade Dudley Thompson is dead

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is a re-post of my earlier response......you in some deep denial.</div></div>

What am I denying?
That five out of about seven men were trained for jobs in the South Side, for two weeks, then taken to Green Bay and killed by the Jamaican Security Forces?

**Tuff Gong** · 01-31-2012, 01:26 PM

Re: Comrade Dudley Thompson is dead

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you being purposely misleading, Jah_yout never declared me the winner. What I got from his post is that I was bringing a lot of supporting information (artillery) to bear in this discussion (battle). </div></div>

My fault .....I thought the [censored]-Poms meant you won.
So you are still battling (yourself), with full artillery then?
Carry on......!

**franksterr** · 01-31-2012, 02:56 PM

Re: Comrade Dudley Thompson is dead

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is a re-post of my earlier response......you in some deep denial.
What am I denying?</div></div>
WOW!! talk about deep deep denial

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
That five out of about seven men were trained for jobs in the South Side, for two weeks, then taken to Green Bay and killed by the Jamaican Security Forces? </div></div>
You never stop, whats this now - misdirection??? you only fooling yourself.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you being purposely misleading, Jah_yout never declared me the winner. What I got from his post is that I was bringing a lot of supporting information (artillery) to bear in this discussion (battle).
My fault .....I thought the [censored]-Poms meant you won.</div></div>
Are you delusional, what Poms Poms ?????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So you are still battling (yourself), with full artillery then?
Carry on......! </div></div>

How Can I be battling (myself) you are responding to all my most recent post????
Get help fast.

Hey it is best if we quit here as it is obvious you have nothing constructive to add, and it apears you are about to devolve into something unsavory. I see no need for us to go that route. As it is clear you have no desire to find the truth but would rather share your opinions and tear down a great and successful brother Dudley Thompson.
Come with something engaging and informative and I will rejoin you here, come with more along the line you are now going - cuss cuss character assination and you on your own.
Peace and Nuff respect.

**Tuff Gong** · 02-01-2012, 03:01 AM

Re: Comrade Dudley Thompson is dead

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is a re-post of my earlier response......you in some deep denial.
What am I denying?</div></div>
WOW!! talk about deep deep denial :shameu </div></div>

What am I denying?

**Tuff Gong** · 02-01-2012, 03:04 AM

Re: Comrade Dudley Thompson is dead

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That five out of about seven men were trained for jobs in the South Side, for two weeks, then taken to Green Bay and killed by the Jamaican Security Forces? </div></div>
You never stop, whats this now - misdirection??? you only fooling yourself [/quote]

How so?
There were more than five men trained.
Then taken to Green Bay.
Then shot.
Guns placed on them.
I think there were two survivours, but at least one man survived.
What it the mis-direction here?

**Tuff Gong** · 02-01-2012, 03:08 AM

Re: Comrade Dudley Thompson is dead

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How Can I be battling (myself) you are responding to all my most recent post????
Get help fast. </div></div>

Fact is I am responding to <span style="font-weight: bold">posts</span>, not just yours.
Fact is I have not responded to <span style="font-weight: bold">all</span> your posts.
Fact is I am not in a <span style="font-weight: bold">battle</span>, but your chair leader alluded to one and you seem to be affirming that.

**Tuff Gong** · 02-25-2012, 11:33 PM

Re: Comrade Dudley Thompson is dead

<span style="font-size: 14pt">Time to bring out the evidence saved on my drive <span style="font-style: italic">(soon show why)</span> as opposed to the ramblings of very disturbed minds</span>

**Tuff Gong** · 02-25-2012, 11:43 PM

Re: Comrade Dudley Thompson is dead

First My Green Bay Playlist:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA6A6F5AA83AE8150

**Tuff Gong** · 02-25-2012, 11:52 PM

Re: Comrade Dudley Thompson is dead

<span style="font-size: 14pt">Flashback - The Green Bay affair </span>
published: Sunday | April 30, 2006

- FILE
A large crowd outside Spanish Town Court House from the previous day awaiting the verdict of the Green Bay inquest.

Howard Campbell, Gleaner Writer

IT WAS one of the most controversial incidents in, arguably, the most controversial decade in Jamaica's history. Indeed, 28 years after five men were killed by Jamaica Defence Force soldiers at the Green Bay shooting range in St. Catherine, it remains a topic of passionate debate.

The bloody incident took place on the morning of January 5, 1978, when 10 men from the Central Kingston constituency of Southside were taken to Green Bay in the Port Henderson section of Portmore, to meet a 'big man' who would give them employment as driver/ bodyguards. The jobs were supposed to pay $300 a week.

Five of them perished after coming under fire from a squad of soldiers. The public outcry was just as loud as the Braeton and Kraal shootings involving the Special Anti-Crime Unit of the Jamaica Constabulary Force two decades later.

QUESTIONABLE BACKGROUNDS

Like Braeton and Kraal, the security forces said those killed at Green Bay had questionable backgrounds and the shooting was justified. Others, including (retired) Jamaica Defense Force (JDF) officer Colonel Allan Douglas, believe the act was cold-blooded murder.

"Green Bay was a murderous and unprofessional act carried out by members of the JDF," Colonel Douglas told The Sunday Gleaner last week. "It is a chapter in the history of the JDF and indeed Jamaica that I am extremely ashamed of."

In February 1982, four years after the incident, 10 JDF soldiers were freed of murder charges in the Manchester Circuit Court. They were also freed of conspiracy to murder.

Interestingly, at the coroner's Inquest in May 1978 the jury found that 'persons conspired to commit murder' at Green Bay.

What is without question is that the men from Southside were transported to Green Bay in two Red Cross ambulances. At the Coroner's Inquest, the JDF soldiers who testified said that the men went to the range to collect guns smuggled into the country and were surprised by a "Special Strike Force". The men opened fire on the army patrol which retaliated, killing five of them.

The dead men were identified as Norman 'Guttu' Thompson, a former star footballer for Santos and Jamaica; Glenroy Richards, Trevor Clarke, Winston Hamilton and Martin Howard.

NO EVIDENCE OF A SHOOT-OUT

According to the soldiers, the other men fled and made their way back to Southside, an area with strong ties to the Opposition Jamaica Labour Party (JLP). There was no evidence of a shoot-out. A comprehensive search of the area two weeks later recovered a rusty gun that had not been used for many years.

The JDF story did not go down well with the public and organisations including the JLP and the Jamaica Council for Human Rights. The latter called for an impartial independent commission of enquiry. Initially, the Minister of National Security, Dudley Thompson, scoffed at the outcry. His now infamous statement, "No angels died at Green Bay," further fuelled an explosive affair; eventually, he relented and ordered a Coroner's Inquest.

Those who died at Green Bay were not squeaky clean. Thompson was convicted for shoplifting in Bermuda while playing a match for Jamaica there in 1973; Richards was arrested for murder in 1970, but was never tried; Howard was convicted for larceny in 1974, while Clarke was charged with breaching the Dangerous Drug Act in 1976.

Hamilton, a contractor, had no criminal record.

After a two-week delay, a Coroner's Inquest into the Green Bay incident opened with the 10 JDF soldiers, the five survivors and (then Captain) Douglas among those testifying. Also taking the stand was Junior Douglas, an agent of the military intelligence who said he was at Green Bay at the time of the shooting.

Junior Douglas (no relation to Allan) said the men were lured to Green Bay by JDF agents in the ambulances, taken to the firing range and ambushed by soldiers led by Major Ian Robinson and Captain Karl Marsh.

The five survivors corroborated Douglas' testimony and eight weeks after the inquest began, the jury returned a unanimous verdict that "person or persons were criminally responsible" for the death of five men at Green Bay.

In July, a Supreme Court judge issued bench warrants for murder, for officers Major Robinson and Sergeant LaFlamme Schooler, and soldiers Desmond Grant, Errol Grant, Everald King, Colin Reid and Joel Stainrod. Major Robinson, Captain Marsh, Lieutenant Suzanne Haik, Lieutenant Frederick Fraser and Sergeant Schooler were all charged with conspiracy to murder.

All were acquitted. In June and July 1981, respectively, Frater, Haik and Marsh were freed after the court upheld a no-case submission on their behalf; Robinson and Schooler were found not guilty in July 1981.

As for the murder charges, the seven accused walked free from the Manchester Circuit Court on February 8, 1982, after the Director of Public Prosecutions entered a nolle prosequi (decision not to pursue the case any further).

The Green Bay case was over.

A.J. Nicholson, a member of the defence team, exclaimed: "Justice has triumphed!"

Some journalists, among them Gleaner columnist Wilmot Perkins, questioned the verdict. Dudley Thompson, who gained international fame during the 1950s as the lawyer who defended Kenyan nationalist Jomo Kenyatta for his part in the Mau Mau uprising in that country, never lived down his infamous 'Angels' utterance.

In 2001, when there were calls for politicians and public officials to admit their wrongs and failures in a truth and rights reconciliation forum, the combative Thompson finally apologised for the remark he had made 23 years earlier.

Colonel Allan Douglas retired from the JDF in 2002 and now lives in Florida. He says some in the army considered his testimony against the JDF traitorous but insists to this day that five innocent men died at Green Bay.

**Tuff Gong** · 02-25-2012, 11:54 PM

Re: Comrade Dudley Thompson is dead

<span style="font-size: 14pt">Green Bay survivors remember 30 years after the massacre</span>
published: Sunday | January 13, 2008

Glenroy Sinclair, Assignment Coordinator

Griffiths relates his ordeal at Green Bay. - Norman Grindley/Deputy Chief Photographer

On January 5, 1978, 14 men from the Jamaica Labour Party stronghold of Southside, central Kingston, were escorted to the military range at Green Bay, St. Catherine, by soldiers. The men were lured with the offer of jobs. Five of them were allegedly shot dead by the soldiers, resulting in a scandal for the ruling People's National Party. This is the final part of a story in which survivors relate their ordeal.

It was 5:15 in the morning and an ambulance and a minivan were already parked in the darkness, waiting in the volatile community of Southside, Central Kingston, to transport a group of men to the military range in Green Bay, St. Catherine.

But not all the men who were recruited and had agreed to go, made the trip. Some were still asleep, a few had declined to take the ride in the ambulance, while others who had become suspicious of the mission, stayed away when the transport arrived.

Most of those who were supposed to go, retired to bed late the night before the bloody incident because they went to the now defunct Palace Theatre to watch the movie Honour Thy Father.

"It was my bigger brother who was supposed to go, but when the ambulance and minivan, came he was still asleep, so I took his place," recounts Ian Brown, one of the five survivors of the controversial Green Bay Massacre.

bad luck

Danny Roots, who was originally supposed to go on the journey, became upset when he saw the ambulance and changed his mind. He tried to persuade his dreadlock friend, Trevor Clarke, alias 'Gold Eye', not to go, telling him that it was "bad luck fe dreadlocks travel inna ambulance".

Delroy Griffiths, alias 'Jadda Brag', was 23 years old at the time, unemployed and had two children to support. His name was not among the recruits. However, the morning the transportation arrived, he made sure he got a seat in one of the vehicles.

"Me neva did a work at de time and me decided that me nah beg nobody nutten. Me hear seh a work de man dem a get, $500 a week. Me did want a work, so me mek sure seh me get a seat inna de vehicle," Griffiths tells The Sunday Gleaner.

His attire would fool anybody that he is insane. Since his near-death experience at Green Bay, he has become scared of going out and approaching strangers for jobs. Instead, he chooses to walk the streets of Kingston and 'hustle'."What dem do to the man dem at Green Bay is total wickedness. Imagine, dem come and promise we work, then tek we and carry we go a Green Bay fe kill we off," relates Griffiths.

The Sunday Gleaner understands that the job they were promised was to transport and guard shipments of illegal guns.

Recounting what took place on January 5, 1978, at the military range, Griffiths remembered that when the transportation arrived that morning, the drivers of the vehicles told them they were going to meet the so-called boss.

When the vehicles turned off the main road and disappeared into the bushes, going towards the military range, Griffiths said several things began racing through his mind. The closer he got towards the military camp, the more he became suspicious of the mission.

"Me tell miself seh, if a de boss we going meet fe get work, then something must wrong, because no boss nah go de in a bush weh so much soldier deh," said Griffiths.

When they arrived at the range, there were soldiers all over. He said a huge and unusual, high-powered weapon immediately caught his eye. The weapon was partially concealed in the bushes, pointing in the direction of the shooting range.

permanent limp

Griffiths, who now walks with a permanent limp, said one of the soldiers then gave orders for them to assemble at the shooting range, at which the gun was pointing. He said another soldier pointed to Rudolph Nesbeth and asked if he was the leader of the group. Nesbeth answered no and pointed at Winston 'Saddle Head' Hamilton.

According to some of the men who were supposed to go on the trip but had changed their minds at the last minute, Hamilton was the main man. He was the one who had met and spoken with a soldier by the name of Junior Star and had organised everything.

"I watched one of de soldier hug up Saddle Head and walk wid him, until dem disappear roun a corner. Less than a minute after dat, me hear a shot fire and then me tell miself seh, 'A 'Saddle Head' de boy just kill'," Griffiths recalls.

He says within seconds after hearing the initial gunshot, he heard a barrage of shots and saw blue flames coming from the huge machine gun that was partially concealed in the bushes. He heard some of his friends scream in pain, while others shouted that it was a trap.

"Me dive pon the ground and roll. De machine gun dig up the dirt and me feel stone and dirt start sting me inna me face," the Green Bay survivor relates.

He got up and dashed towards the bushes, making his way towards the sea. During his attempt to escape, he ran into a soldier.

"When me see de soldier, him point de gun pon me and fe couple seconds him neva fire. Me run off again. This time, me mek a dummy run, turn back, dive to the ground and get up and run again," Griffiths recounts. "De soldier open a barrage of shots, but me just keep running, till me climb down pon some rock near de sea. Me see a boat wid two fisherman, me signal and dem pick me up and carry me come a Greenwich Farm," says Griffiths.

Eventually, the five traumatised survivors - Griffiths, Rudolph Nesbeth, Ian Brown, Tony Spencer and 'Fire Booger' - returned to the Jamaica Labour Party stronghold in central Kingston to tell their sad tale.

**Q3210** · 02-26-2012, 04:44 PM

Re: Comrade Dudley Thompson is dead

The Southside community was the stick in the spokes of the wheel that Manley and the PNP wanted a garrison stronghold in central Kingston. So as to eliminate some of the strongmen, they connived the Green Bay massacre by luring them out with the bait, to get a work, then wantonly cutting them down murderously using a squad of soldiers.
nb. Manley was the MP for Central Kingston

RIP Hon Dudley Thompson

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