RIP Hon Dudley Thompson

[R_C]

Re: Comrade Dudley Thompson is dead

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: remo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Desperate times calls for desperate measures </div></div>

Is that so?

My friend, all totalitarian regimes have used this as a pretext for stripping its citizens of their human rights. You are comfortable with Jamaica having joined this club?

In any event, since many of those who lost their lives under the Suppression of Crimes Act, and their liberty under the Gun Court Act, are names that you would not recognize let us look at some that you might. Specific cases might help to put this into perspective for you.

Pearnel Charles, the past Minister of Labour and Deputy Leader of the JLP at the time was detained for 9 months by Manley and Keble Munn. No statement was taken from him and he was not charged with a crime at the time of his arrest. He was eventually brought before the court for “attempting to murder persons unknown”, a ridiculous charge as evidenced by the failure of the government to submit any evidence whatsoever to substantiate it. The charge was dismissed without Charles having to say one word in his defense. Incidentally, Babsy Grange, another name with which you might be familiar, was detained under similar circumstances.

What say you?

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Comrade Dudley Thompson is dead

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Have you answered the question and named a politician with a similiar position without such a blemish??? </div></div>

That an idiotic question. 1. You cannot give an answer to a negative?
2. This was not a blemish this was a planned torture and murder of innocent job seekers and again there were many other folks burned alive in their homes in Gold Street, Orange Lane and Eventide Home.

As for a Civil War.....No Jamaica was not at war and even in war there are rules that prohibit torture.....ask the Nazis who did the same thing Dudley and his crew did.

My friend you don't know a thing about Brigadistas. Further more I lived in the Jamaica I am talking about I was tortured myself when I was a child.

[evanovitch]

The relevance of Dudley Thompson


The relevance of Dudley Thompson
Published: Tuesday | January 24, 20124 Comments



Last week's death of Dudley Thompson, aged 95, was another indication of the rapid closing of the era of a group of outstanding Jamaicans, some of whose influence and impact transcended this country.

Before Mr Thompson's death, for instance, was the passing of David Coore, the politician and lawyer - a man of sharp intellect, who was one of two surviving framers of the Jamaican Constitution. The other is the former prime minister, Edward Seaga, who is now in his eighties.

Mr Seaga recently published two volumes of his memoirs. We are lucky, too, that two decades ago Mr Thompson published a short retrospection of a period of his life, in the early 1950s, spent in East Africa.

For a man about whom a younger generation does not know enough and who, insofar as they are aware of him, would likely be seen through monochromatic political lenses, this brief account of Dudley Thompson's life in what was then Tanganyika (modern-day Tanzania) and Kenya is important.

Unfortunately, Mr Thompson, in the absence of broader availability of the knowledge, has been defined by too limited a span, and view, of his long life - mostly the ideologically divisive period of the 1970s.

So, he is more likely to be recalled as the national security minister in the People's National Party administration who quipped that &quot;no angels died at Green Bay&quot;, in response to the 1978 incident when soldiers lured presumed criminals/opposition political activists to the military firing range and shot five dead. To Mr Thompson's credit, he, during the last decade, tearfully apologised for that remark.

But any political intemperance that may be claimed for Mr Thompson's politics of the 1970s neither masks nor diminishes his greater relevance and larger achievements - especially as a pan-Africanist and subscriber to the ideals of non-alignment. Indeed, from this perspective, the presumption of Thompson as a rabid socialist intent on helping Manley steer Jamaica into Soviet-style communism was as invalid then and as it is now.

Significantly, Mr Thompson, in the Second World War, volunteered for the Royal Air Force, becoming a flight lieutenant and navigational bomber.

Later, as a Rhodes Scholar, he studied at Oxford, became a lawyer, and was part of the post-war anticolonial ferment among students gathered in London and elsewhere. Among his close friends was the future leader of Kenya, Jomo Kenyatta.

Work in east africa

In Tanganyika, he practised law in the town of Moshi, near to Kenya.

When a Koinange old senior chief of Kenya's Kikuyu tribe faced a trumped-up murder charge from the Kenyan authorities, Mr Thompson organised for Sir Dingle Foot, the brother of one of Jamaica's last colonial governors, Sir Hugh Foot, to lead Koinange's defence.

Later, when Kenyatta was secretly arrested, accused of being behind the Mau Mau rebellion against Kenya's apartheid-style colonial rule, Mr Thompson got word from Mr Kenyatta. Mr Thompson pulled together an eminent team of Commonwealth attorneys, with support from India's Jawaharlal Nehru, to defend Kenyatta.

In Tanganyika, Mr Thompson was a friend of the country's future leader, Julius Nyrere, whom he notably advised against moving towards a single-party political system in his plan for independence.

The fuller stories and achievements of people like Dudley Thompson can be inspirational in a country wracked by doubt. These stories ought not to be lost, but collected and told.


The opinions on this page, except for the above, do not necessarily reflect the views of The Gleaner. To respond to a Gleaner editorial, email us: [email protected] or fax: 922-6223. Responses should be no longer than 400 words. Not all responses will be published.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: The relevance of Dudley Thompson

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The relevance of Dudley Thompson
Published: Tuesday | January 24, 20124 Comments
</div></div>

None this matters when you turn the guns of the State (by design), on your own people. Hitler did some good as well!

[evanovitch]

Messrs Seaga and Thompson: from foes to friends

Messrs Seaga and Thompson: from foes to friends


Tuesday, January 24, 2012


Former Prime Minister Edward Seaga's tribute to the late Ambassador Dudley Thompson is as revealing as it is touching.

Older readers will recall that both men were political adversaries, facing each other twice -- in the 1962 and 1967 general elections -- for the tough Kingston Western constituency.

Mr Seaga, the Jamaica Labour Party (JLP) stalwart who won both contests, recalled in his tribute that the 1967 campaign was particularly violent.

However, one of the most important outcomes, he said, was that he and Ambassador Thompson, who represented the People's National Party (PNP), developed a very pleasant personal friendship which extended throughout the rest of Ambassador Thompson's life.

&quot;While we did not meet frequently, when we met it was in friendship. He was accustomed, when he travelled, to bring back a little gift for my wife, a token which we appreciated,&quot; Mr Seaga said.

&quot;At times, as minister of national security, he would call me to visit trouble spots in West Kingston together when there was an outbreak of violence. This was naturally satisfying to us both,&quot; the former prime minister and JLP leader added.

Mr Seaga admitted that this portrayal of Ambassador Thompson &quot;as a man with a personal touch is possibly quite different from his general disposition&quot;.

However, he gave the depiction, he said, as &quot;a prime example of those periods in our development which have proven that in politics bitterness can be replaced by betterment through friendship&quot;.

That, we submit, is a most profound statement that should remain foremost in the minds of all Jamaicans, especially at election time.

The ability of these two men -- who were poles apart politically and ideologically -- to form a friendship and work together to solve problems on the ground in West Kingston is a demonstration of the kind of civility and respect for opposing views that many Jamaicans have been eager to see become the norm here.

We suspect that on seeing the general behaviour of the electorate during the December 2011 general election, Messrs Seaga and Thompson would have felt some amount of hope that their efforts were finally bearing fruit.

The camaraderie displayed by supporters of both the JLP and the PNP from Nomination Day through to Election Day was, in the main, exemplary and worthy of commendation.

However, there still exist across the country many sycophants and political tribalists who, for whatever reason, are resisting the refreshing wind of change.

It is clear that a lot more work needs to be done to create a greater atmosphere of tolerance and respect for life.

To be fair, the leaders of our political parties have been making a valuable contribution to this effort, and that is what we saw coming out in the last election. However, they can be more forceful in their message to supporters to respect views that are opposed to theirs.

We believe that one of the more effective ways of getting that message across is to discuss issues on political platforms rather than engaging in belligerent rhetoric, as is too often the case with our politicians.

Healthy dialogue on issues, we hold, will stimulate people's minds and allow them to make informed decisions about the future of the country.


Read more: http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/editorial...1#ixzz1kOxdSmoI

[evanovitch]

Re: Messrs Seaga and Thompson: from foes to friends

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Former Prime Minister Edward Seaga, who contested the Kingston Western constituency against Thompson in the 1962 and 1967 general elections described Thompson as &quot;the foremost Pan-Africanist in Jamaica&quot; who &quot;involved himself in African affairs for the betterment of the future of the continent, as well as to keep Africa alive in the minds and interest of the multitude of Jamaican people of African origin&quot;.

Both of these missions, Seaga said, were essential to our deeper understanding of a more Afro-centric Jamaica through the roots Thompson planted and the fruits they have borne.

Seaga also recalled the election contests, noting that the 1962 poll was the first for himself and Thompson.

&quot;The contest, which I won, was based on my understanding of Jamaican folk life; his on the understanding of Africa. He dubbed himself 'The Burning Spear' after Jomo Kenyata, the liberator of Kenya who he helped to defend in court,&quot; Seaga said.

&quot;The contest turned violent when he resumed his challenge in the general election of 1967. But one of the most important outcomes was that Dudley and myself thereafter developed a very pleasant personal friendship which extended throughout the rest of his life,&quot; Seaga said.

&quot;While we did not meet frequently, when we met it was in friendship. He was accustomed, when he travelled, to bring back a little gift for my wife, a token which we appreciated. At times, as minister of national security, he would call me to visit trouble spots in West Kingston together when there was an outbreak of violence. This was naturally satisfying to us both.&quot;

Seaga acknowledged that this portrayal of Thompson &quot;as a man with a personal touch is possibly quite different from his general disposition&quot;.

However, he said he depicted it &quot;as a prime example of those periods in our development which have proven that in politics bitterness can be replaced by betterment through friendship&quot;.


Read more: http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/...#ixzz1kOy7awgo</div></div>

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Messrs Seaga and Thompson: from foes to friends

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Messrs Seaga and Thompson: from foes to friends


Tuesday, January 24, 2012 </div></div>
It was Dudley that brought the guns to West Kingston......Of course he was pleasant in the. They already destroyed Jamaica to get at Eddie and when Eddie won he and others like him went of to a good retirement in the USA....Why not become friends?

[R_C]

Re: Messrs Seaga and Thompson: from foes to friends

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It was Dudley that brought the guns to West Kingston......</div></div>

That's why he did not want any witnesses present when Roberto Hart's trailers were being unloaded.

And one of the reasons the Police Federation passed a declaration of &quot;no confidence&quot; in Dudley. The only Minister of National Security in the history of Jamaica to lose the support of the police in so explicit a manner.

[evanovitch]

Re: Messrs Seaga and Thompson: from foes to friends

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R_C</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It was Dudley that brought the guns to West Kingston......</div></div>

That's why he did not want any witnesses present when Roberto Hart's trailers were being unloaded.

And one of the reasons the Police Federation passed a declaration of &quot;no confidence&quot; in Dudley. <span style="font-weight: bold">The only Minister of National Security </span>in the history of Jamaica to lose the support of the police in so explicit a manner. </div></div>

wat about Tony...<span style="font-weight: bold">rumour</span> had it he would be there wen guns were being distributed in Wareika Hills...a so mi hear,...mi not saying is true..juss dat is wat was rumoured bak in the day...

[franksterr]

Re: Comrade Dudley Thompson is dead

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Have you answered the question and named a politician with a similiar position without such a blemish??? </div></div>

That an idiotic question. 1. You cannot give an answer to a negative?
2. This was not a blemish this was a planned torture and murder of innocent job seekers and again there were many other folks burned alive in their homes in <span style="font-weight: bold">Gold Street, Orange Lane and Eventide Home</span>.</div></div>

Still Haven't anwsered the question.

Yeah it was planned but by who?

I have my reservations as to their innocences in that they were willing to transport Illegal guns in a time of rampant gun violence?

I have already demonstarted that the above in bold were CIA operations, but some of us have to believe what they want, things that they have done over and over in many many countries to effect regime change by smearing and discrediting politicians.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As for a Civil War.....No Jamaica was not at war and even in war there are rules that prohibit torture.....ask the Nazis who did the same thing Dudley and his crew did.</div></div>

I said near civil war. Civil war was the aim of the foreign interventionist.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My friend you don't know a thing about Brigadistas. Further more I lived in the Jamaica I am talking about I was tortured myself when I was a child. </div></div>

Isn't that what I just said.....I know little about brigadistas

I lived in Ja thru-out the 60's 70's and half of the 80's
I was not tortured, I was shot a by police, and detained by gunmen.

By whom were you tortured?

[franksterr]

Re: Comrade Dudley Thompson is dead

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R_C</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=franksterr]it was a reaction to sabotage and supterfuge.

No, it was a reaction to the murder of Leo Henry and Paul Fitz-Ritson. And an election was coming.</div></div>

Same difference?


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It was a struggle to lift the poor black masses of Jamaica.

No, it was a struggle to lock up members of the JLP and to murder their supporters.</div></div>

Of Course that is true if they are lawbreakers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">as far as I know the Brigadistas were people who went to study (trian) and be educated (re-educated) in Cuba.

The brigadistas were &quot;trained&quot; by a paramilitary wing of the Cuban armed forces. </div></div>

That as I said I do not know, provide me with some info so that I maybe in the know on that issue.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.Ask yourself what would manley have to gain by killing his own people?

Elections were to be held in December of 1976. The JLP was leading in the polls. The State of Emergency was declared in June of 1976. The KoolAid at the time was that the JLP and the CIA were responsible for an upsurge in violence even though, many many members of the JLP and their supporters were dying.</div></div>

For the blame to stick it on Manley and the PNP it would make sense for you to kill members and or supporters of the JLP????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Even basic school children were able to figure out what was going on. </div></div>

How come you haven't???

[R_C]

Re: Comrade Dudley Thompson is dead

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the blame to stick it on Manley and the PNP it would make sense for <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">you</span></span> to kill members and or supporters of the JLP????</div></div>

Who is &quot;you&quot; ?

[franksterr]

Re: Comrade Dudley Thompson is dead

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R_C</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the blame to stick it on Manley and the PNP it would make sense for <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">you</span></span> to kill members and or supporters of the JLP????</div></div>

Who is &quot;you&quot; ? </div></div>

supporters of the cia

[R_C]

Re: Comrade Dudley Thompson is dead

Of what political affiliation ?

[franksterr]

Re: Comrade Dudley Thompson is dead

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R_C</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of what political affiliation ? </div></div>

Political affiliation is of little import, so long as the then current goal is achieve..........which was the removal of the then government.